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Old 05-21-2013, 08:24 PM   #16
Inoplanetyanin OP
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I've been reading all over the net on the question of gear oil vs recommended 10w30 and i'm still undecided.

10w30 is also recommended in Yamaha Zuma 125 and the C 3.

I've read that the viscosity are similar. But still, I doubt Honda just tried to make it easier so only one oil can be used. Honda requires plenty of special fluids, adhesives, greases, etc for Elite 110, so I think there must be a reason the service manual calls for it.

Obviously everyone will use whatever they want and feel safe with but I am still undecided. Will do more research.

Came across this along the way... http://www.redlineoil.com/content/fi...ech%20Info.pdf
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Old 05-21-2013, 11:26 PM   #17
DaBinChe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fullmetalscooter View Post
OEm parts for popular scooter are more cash and don't offer anything much . At least when it come to non china parts like Kevlar belts , Slider , clutches , clutch springs you get better then Honda ever put out. Eg 80 bucks for honda helix belt or 40 Bucks for Non OEM Kevlar Belt that is tougher then stock. I understand what you re saying but I would want the best for my ride not just something the OEM maker gets made to the lowest bucks that can and then makes a 500 % profit on. Eg cn250 Muffler Clamps 20 bucks OEM . Thats insane for 50 cent Item.
As to Gear Oil Everyone on the Ch250 Elite board uses it. Randy P whom Is a top of the line expert on this stuff says use 80 weight gear oil. Lets break this Down Car oil breaks down with HIGH use and temp. That what happening in the tranny. Low volume oil , Low change rate. Gear OIL is made for Gears . Long lasting . What you re saying I feel doesn't make sense because gear oil get but in Million of places where Gears like this need to be lubed. Not one person here or anywhere that I ve read , has said #)($U* Gear oil cause my parts to fail. They ve said things Like I did fill it up etc . Left bolt etc. In 5 years of using gear oil I ve not had issues myself . As far as I know honda said 10 w 40 .

Don't be fooled by aftermarket mombo jumbo. The quality is not even close compared to original Honda parts. Aftermarket parts performs differently and that is just that difference in results but that doesn't mean the quality is better. Many claim high performance and maybe they are and maybe they aren't but that doesn't transfer to better quality. An aftermarket kevlar belt does nothing in the performance department nor do they last longer, stock is best.
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Old 05-21-2013, 11:32 PM   #18
DaBinChe
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As for the final drive oil. NO ONE knows hondas better then Honda. If they say 10w-30 then it will be fine. I don't see anything wrong with using gear oil except if the bearings really do have tighter tolerences that calls for the thinner oil. I don't think this to be the case and still think it is there to save fuel...well maybe not save more fuel but reduce emissions. If you use less fuel you'll also have lower emissions. The US more recently has gotten stricter on emissions then what they once were for bikes.

In the pictures of the met final drive what you don't see is that once you take the actual gears/shafts off they look just like the elite. They both have three shafts with corresponding gears and bearings.
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Old 05-21-2013, 11:32 PM   #19
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I agree about the belt. If a belt is much harder than the original design, it will be wearing out the driven faces of the variator and the clutch assemblies, both of which are significantly more expensive to replace than the belts.
It's similar with metallic brake pads that last forever but force the owner to replace brake rotors instead...
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Old 05-21-2013, 11:57 PM   #20
JerryH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inoplanetyanin View Post
I've been reading all over the net on the question of gear oil vs recommended 10w30 and i'm still undecided.

10w30 is also recommended in Yamaha Zuma 125 and the C 3.

I've read that the viscosity are similar. But still, I doubt Honda just tried to make it easier so only one oil can be used. Honda requires plenty of special fluids, adhesives, greases, etc for Elite 110, so I think there must be a reason the service manual calls for it.

Obviously everyone will use whatever they want and feel safe with but I am still undecided. Will do more research.

Came across this along the way... http://www.redlineoil.com/content/fi...ech%20Info.pdf
I use 10w40 in the engine of my Zuma 125. IMO, 10w30 is simply too thin and does not have enough load bearing ability. The manual did indeed say to use engine oil in the final drive, but when I drained out the original oil, it was definitely GL gear oil, so I put 80w90 GL gear oil back in. That was 4,000 miles ago. I have changed it once since then, with the same thing, and had no problems.

I believe manufacturers of all vehicles, including cars, recommend the super thin oils to please the EPA, not because they are what is best for the engine. I also use 10w40 in my 25,000 mile Vino 125, and 20w50 in my 3 motorcycles, as well as my '64 Fairlane, '72 Pinto, and '93 S-10 hot rod/drag racer. To me saving a tiny amount of gas is peanuts compared to the value of a good engine. The EPA also likes engines to wear out faster, so people will replace their vehicles with newer ones sooner. This is common knowledge among older mechanics. Younger ones just out of school have often been programmed with all that EPA rubbish. Just like anyone should know that warming up an engine before putting a load on it is universally a good idea for many reasons, yet most vehicle owners and many newer mechanics have been convinced it is no longer necessary. BS.
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Old 05-22-2013, 12:53 AM   #21
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I like your reasoning. You are making good arguments, in my opinion.
I've noticed some of the shifts in automotive mainstream thinking since late 90s to current times.
I will be curious to see what comes out of the final drive in the Elite. That might influence my decision about what to refill it with.
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Old 05-23-2013, 09:54 PM   #22
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Alright guys, thanks for all your support and advise.

I am leaving on Saturday and should start the ride on Tuesday, the 28th! Wohooo
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Old 06-09-2013, 09:33 AM   #23
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The Elite made it back home to Los Angeles after a 2800 miles journey.
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Old 06-09-2013, 10:03 AM   #24
longhaul747
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Originally Posted by Inoplanetyanin View Post
The Elite made it back home to Los Angeles after a 2800 miles journey.
Glad to hear it. 2,800 miles is a pretty solid trek in one shot for the Elite 110. Not so much for the bike as it can handle anything but it takes a solid rider to pull that off on an Elite 110. It will be interesting to hear about your experience.

BTW, is yours red or black?

I just did some routine maintenance on my Elite 110 this week. I serviced the coolant for the 1st time. Usually Honda coolant is green but what came out was blu. Hopefully its the same formula as the Honda green because that is what I replaced it with. Just in case I did flush a few extra times. My guess its the same stuff but the factory in China perhaps uses blu coolant from a supplier they use.

I also drained and refilled the final drive a 2nd time. Last time I did it was at 60 miles during break in and what came out was a gray and black mess. However when I drained it again at 2,000 miles and 2 years the oil still looked almost new with no metal shavings. It was my opinion that after the 1st change it really never needs to be touched again or at least for a long time. Probably good for 5 years or 10,000 miles once the gears are seated. At 60 miles I used Honda 80W-90 and at 2,000 miles I used the same stuff.

I also did the annual oil change. Dumped the Rotella 5W-40 Synthetic and put in Delo 400 5W-40 Synthetic. Engine oil was noticeably darker and before draining I checked level and no consumption has taken place.

In another 500 or 600 miles it will be time to inspect the valves. I do just about everything myself except for valves mainly because I have owned more complex bikes in the past. However it really truly looks easy on the Elite 110 so I may give it a go this time around.
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Old 06-09-2013, 10:34 AM   #25
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:) Cool. I plan to do a whole lot of maintenance on mine.
The picture answers the question about the color.

I changed the factory oil at 60 miles with Valvoline 10w40 motorcycle mineral oil. Then at 600 I put Castrol 10w40 motorcycle full synthetic. At 1600 I replaced it with Mobil 1 full synthetic 10w40 motorcycle oil. Now at 1800 I plan to do another oil change just because I rode through dust storms and on dirt roads.

:( Unfortunately I didn't replace final drive oil and it's probably a mess there. I plan to use 80w90 or 75w .. whatever synthetic gear fluid from auto zone (I think it's Castrol or Valvoline).

Then I need to figure out the source of the rattle from the front brake caliper.

The top speed has definitely fallen from 52 to about 49. But that's loaded. I need to see how fast it goes empty.

All in all, it's a big improvement from the Met. :)
At times I was wishing I was riding the PCX 125 (going WOT at 25 mph up hills in Western New Mexico/Eastern Arizona, or even up slight hill but against the wind here in CA) but then I was happy being on the Elite again.

The fuel efficiency disappointed me slightly but again, I guess it's due to being loaded and very poor aerodynamics with all those bag. I got as low as 72 mpg. The best was 89 but that's when I was alone before my friend joined as a passenger.

Just to be clear, the entire ride was 2 up and with camping gear and supplies for two, in addition to tools, several gallons of water, and 2 weeks worth of clothing.

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Old 06-09-2013, 06:03 PM   #26
longhaul747
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inoplanetyanin View Post
:) Cool. I plan to do a whole lot of maintenance on mine.
The picture answers the question about the color.

I changed the factory oil at 60 miles with Valvoline 10w40 motorcycle mineral oil. Then at 600 I put Castrol 10w40 motorcycle full synthetic. At 1600 I replaced it with Mobil 1 full synthetic 10w40 motorcycle oil. Now at 1800 I plan to do another oil change just because I rode through dust storms and on dirt roads.

:( Unfortunately I didn't replace final drive oil and it's probably a mess there. I plan to use 80w90 or 75w .. whatever synthetic gear fluid from auto zone (I think it's Castrol or Valvoline).

Then I need to figure out the source of the rattle from the front brake caliper.

The top speed has definitely fallen from 52 to about 49. But that's loaded. I need to see how fast it goes empty.

All in all, it's a big improvement from the Met. :)
At times I was wishing I was riding the PCX 125 (going WOT at 25 mph up hills in Western New Mexico/Eastern Arizona, or even up slight hill but against the wind here in CA) but then I was happy being on the Elite again.

The fuel efficiency disappointed me slightly but again, I guess it's due to being loaded and very poor aerodynamics with all those bag. I got as low as 72 mpg. The best was 89 but that's when I was alone before my friend joined as a passenger.

Just to be clear, the entire ride was 2 up and with camping gear and supplies for two, in addition to tools, several gallons of water, and 2 weeks worth of clothing.

Cool...the Red Color same as mine!

WOW..considering how loaded down you are I am actually amazed you got 72 MPG and was able to reach 49 MPH and 25 up steep hills. Yeah..you should notice a big improvement once you get all that stuff off.

Mine sees a lot of traffic and many 45 MPH roads that you must actually do 50+ on or get killed. The Elite is near its top speed so its not going to get the best fuel economy at that speed. Checking my fuel mileage app on my phone it looks like I average about 87 MPG with a top of 101 and a low of 78.

As I am sure you quickly figured out its kind of difficult to get an accurate and consistent fill. So a lot of the wide variance in fuel economy is just from that. Sometimes if you are patient you can get get a lot more fuel in the tank without going over the metal bar inside the tank. Personally I wish it did not have all that emissions stuff on it and you could fill to the brim. Probably another 20 miles worth a fuel just in the neck if you could use it.

Looks like you kept up on your oil changes. That is good. I would not stress not being able to service the final drive. As long as it has oil in there nothing is going to wear out. However its my opinion being a stickler on maintainance that you should do it sooner rather then later. Its really pretty easy. Pick up a couple of new crush washers then drain then install the bottom bolt. Refill until it starts leaking out and let it drip out for a few minutes then seal up and you are done. After you do it you should be set for a long while. It just does not need to be changed out all that often. Maybe every 5K miles just for the heck of it but 10K is probably all that is really needed.

Also I read someplace once that inside the belt cover a lot of belt dust can accumulate and cause the scooter to run a little slower. I have not done it yet on mine but its probably not a hard thing to do either. Just pull the belt cover and vacuum out all the black dust. It might help if your top speed does not return.
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