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Old 05-21-2013, 03:42 AM   #1
squizzy OP
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Upgrade suspension question

Hi, I have a 2008 658 and since I have bought a Xcountry, I have using the 658 for more 2 up stuff. It has done 30,000 k and the suspension needs a freshen up (I think). The damping screw at the bottom of the shock does very little when I adjust it. There seems to be no rebound damping when I bounce the rear suspension up and down. I can get a Wlburs shock from the local distributor for $860, and he will redo the forks for $600 with race tech emulators. Other alternative is Ricor intminators and rear shock for $1000 landed here. Another $250 or so for hydraulic preload adjuster. How is the preload adjusted normally? Last alternative is to sell the bike and buy a 1150R which would be better for 2 up (possibly), but I really like the nimble feel of the 658 even when 2 up. Had a 1150 GS in the past which was too much bike for me, but maybe the R being lower would be ok. Any opinions gratefully received.
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Old 05-21-2013, 07:05 AM   #2
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Ummmmmmmmmm, there are NO adjustments on the stock front end of both the 658 and 800. That might explain it. On the rear there is only preload and rebound damping. Did you adjust the rear for 2 up?
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Old 05-21-2013, 10:02 AM   #3
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I replaced the rear shock with Ohlins when the stock Showa got to squishy at around 30k miles. I am really happy with the Ohlins. It is a bit stiffer and raised the bike a half inch, but dramatically improved handling on and off pavement. Check out this shock. Dave
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Old 05-22-2013, 09:05 AM   #4
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Squizzy - You can adjust the preload & ride height on the front by pulling the OEM spacers out and cutting new ones out of PVC (1 1/4" O.D.). The trick is to get very square cuts on the PVC and clean off all the debris from the cutting.

I installed the Ricor Intiminators w/ Amsoil 5 weight synthetic Shock Therapy Fluid, measured 145mm down from the top of the fork with the Intiminators in, spacer and spring out and fork fully compressed. I found it easiest to pull the forks off the bike for this initial work. These are true "drop in" items. No need to completely dismantle the forks and drill out the damper rod as with Race Tech Emulators. So while a little more expensive to start with the Intiminators save time (& money) when installing. I had Emulators on another bike. They were good but the install was tricky for me.

Experimenting around with the Intiminators I ended up cutting a shorter spacer to reduce the preload. OEM spacer is 200mm X 35mm. I'm on my third set up. Changing the spacers can be done with the forks on the bike with the front raised off the ground. Disconnect the handle bars and hang them loosely from above to get them out of the way of the fork caps.

Currently the spacer is 187mm long and I added a steel washer between the spring and spacer. Surprised there wasn't any OEM as it seems to be SOP in my reading. Washer is 2.5mm so my total preload "package" is 189.5mm. I haven't done the usual measurements (ride height & sag) with this set up yet but it seems to ride well on all but the roughest surfaces. If anything, I might shorten the spacer some more to further soften up the front end but not until I measure what I've got in there now. I weigh 190 pounds ATGATT.
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Old 05-22-2013, 02:05 PM   #5
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I am also in the process of upgrading the suspension on my F658GS. The front to begin with, and I am thinking to install the ricor intiminatos, with the stock spacers for starting.
Are they worth the money? Is the difference in riding really that noticeable, as everybody says?
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Old 05-23-2013, 02:41 AM   #6
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Anyone used Ikon or Hagon shocks on their F658? They seem a bit more reasonable price wise.
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Old 05-23-2013, 03:12 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pavlos79 View Post
Is the difference in riding really that noticeable, as everybody says?
If everybody says so what do you expect us to say? I made a drop in fork replacement for my 800GS with some hyperpros. Everybody said it would be a huge difference, I was sceptical, and now I'm part of everybody
On the twins every fork and shock replacement/upgrade is noticeable since the OEM ones are too soft (IMO).

Oh and since we're talking about everybody, "they" also said that I wouldn't be happy just changing the forks. I was sceptical too and wasn't considering changing my rearshock. Well after riding 2 month with the new forks I ordered the Highend version from Touratech and will install them next week.
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Old 05-23-2013, 04:58 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loutre View Post
If everybody says so what do you expect us to say? I made a drop in fork replacement for my 800GS with some hyperpros. Everybody said it would be a huge difference, I was sceptical, and now I'm part of everybody
On the twins every fork and shock replacement/upgrade is noticeable since the OEM ones are too soft (IMO).

Oh and since we're talking about everybody, "they" also said that I wouldn't be happy just changing the forks. I was sceptical too and wasn't considering changing my rearshock. Well after riding 2 month with the new forks I ordered the Highend version from Touratech and will install them next week.
Well, I want to see if there is somebody from the everybody tribe, that will say, Well I did the mod and I didn't see the great difference everybody says, OR say, Well I did the X mod instead,it cost me tot, and it's a lot better than the ricor intiminators mod!
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:11 AM   #9
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I think the Intiminators are worth while, at least for me. They make the fork a little more responsive and planted (less dive) at the same time. Can't speak to off road riding with them as I'm mostly pavement with a few fire roads.

Pavlos - Lots of threads about installing & setting them up.
http://f800riders.org/forum/showthre...GS-Intiminator
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=489675
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...r+intiminators

The Intiminators themselves are 14mm thick so this adds to the preload "package". Ricor recommends shortening the OEM spacer by 16mm (5/8") to return to stock preload. Many do without cutting the spacer. It all depends how your preload, sag, ride height and ride feel are with the OEM set up.

I felt the OEM was was too soft and was inclined to use a longer spacer to firm it up before the Intiminators. I started with the OEM spacer (200mm) + the Intiminators (14mm) for a total preload "package" of 214mm. This was way to stiff for me. On my current set up I have a 187mm spacer + 2.5mm washer + 14mm Intiminator for a true total preload "package" of 203.5mm. So I have increased the preload over stock, which I originally felt was needed, by 3.5mm. Cutting new spacers and changing them out is a very easy task that enables you to experiment to get the right "package" for your needs.

You have got to figure out how the OEM preload works and feels for you as a starting point. With just the OEM spacer do you like it as is? Is it too soft? Then use a longer spacer. Is it too firm? Then use a shorter spacer. Remember that the Intiminator adds 14mm (much firmer) to the preload "package".

Before taking everything apart to install the Intimnators get a buddy to help you measure your sag and ride height so you have a base line for understanding what you are doing. After you have installed the Intiminators with whatever "package" you decide on, do the measurements again and ride it over a lot of different road conditions. While the numbers are not dispositive they are a helpful guide to figuring out where you want to go. Ultimately, though, it's all about how the bike feels with your modifications.

In so far as comparing the Intimnators to the Race Tech Emulators there are two main differences in my experience. Ease of installation. Intiminators win hands down because they "drop in". You don't have to dismantle the forks to drill out the damper rod. The Emulators are adjustable to increase or decrease the speed of the flow of the fork's oil. The faster the flow the softer the ride. The slower the flow the firmer the ride. This could be a benefit if you are really into ultra fine tuning the front end.

Good luck.
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Old 05-23-2013, 12:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malloy View Post
I think the Intiminators are worth while, at least for me. They make the fork a little more responsive and planted (less dive) at the same time. Can't speak to off road riding with them as I'm mostly pavement with a few fire roads.

Pavlos - Lots of threads about installing & setting them up.
http://f800riders.org/forum/showthre...GS-Intiminator
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=489675
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...r+intiminators

The Intiminators themselves are 14mm thick so this adds to the preload "package". Ricor recommends shortening the OEM spacer by 16mm (5/8") to return to stock preload. Many do without cutting the spacer. It all depends how your preload, sag, ride height and ride feel are with the OEM set up.

I felt the OEM was was too soft and was inclined to use a longer spacer to firm it up before the Intiminators. I started with the OEM spacer (200mm) + the Intiminators (14mm) for a total preload "package" of 214mm. This was way to stiff for me. On my current set up I have a 187mm spacer + 2.5mm washer + 14mm Intiminator for a true total preload "package" of 203.5mm. So I have increased the preload over stock, which I originally felt was needed, by 3.5mm. Cutting new spacers and changing them out is a very easy task that enables you to experiment to get the right "package" for your needs.

You have got to figure out how the OEM preload works and feels for you as a starting point. With just the OEM spacer do you like it as is? Is it too soft? Then use a longer spacer. Is it too firm? Then use a shorter spacer. Remember that the Intiminator adds 14mm (much firmer) to the preload "package".

Before taking everything apart to install the Intimnators get a buddy to help you measure your sag and ride height so you have a base line for understanding what you are doing. After you have installed the Intiminators with whatever "package" you decide on, do the measurements again and ride it over a lot of different road conditions. While the numbers are not dispositive they are a helpful guide to figuring out where you want to go. Ultimately, though, it's all about how the bike feels with your modifications.

In so far as comparing the Intimnators to the Race Tech Emulators there are two main differences in my experience. Ease of installation. Intiminators win hands down because they "drop in". You don't have to dismantle the forks to drill out the damper rod. The Emulators are adjustable to increase or decrease the speed of the flow of the fork's oil. The faster the flow the softer the ride. The slower the flow the firmer the ride. This could be a benefit if you are really into ultra fine tuning the front end.

Good luck.
Thanks Malloy for the very detailed review!
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Old 05-24-2013, 05:23 AM   #11
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Your welcome, Pavlos. I hope it helps you and/or others.
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Old 05-26-2013, 07:32 PM   #12
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Thanks Malloy, great info. If I am going to pay for shipping to Aus, I might buy the ricor rear shock as well with hyd preload, anyone used these? Any good? Sounds like they have done a good job for the front, I would imagine they would be ok for the rear as well.
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Old 05-26-2013, 07:49 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squizzy View Post
.........Any opinions gratefully received.
Front will improve with an oil replacement.
Emulators will make fast hits softer, nothing more, rebound will remain the same.

Check this link out for better explanation if interested:
http://www.race-tech.com/HTML_FILES/...gRodForks.HTML

Maybe your rear shock only needs proper pre-load for two-up, unless you have seen oil leaking out of the damper.

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