ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Old's Cool > Airheads
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-21-2013, 03:01 PM   #16
Airhead Wrangler
Adios Mexico
 
Airhead Wrangler's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: Back in Seattle, FINALLY
Oddometer: 6,410
Quote:
Originally Posted by supershaft View Post
K+N filter? Like most people run them with no oil? Or with oil? With oil, they filter a lot better than paper. I have seen that turn out time after time after time servicing square airboxes. The stock paper filters are crap!
Yeah, but first you gotta trim them to fit the airbox so that they seal and don't let huge amounts of unfiltered air in. Then maybe they filter. I don't know though. I've never used them.
__________________
R80ST Gets The HPN Treatment
Seattle to TDF on an airhead

Current rides: HPN #834, '93 R100GSPD "red rocket", '73 R75/5 Toaster mongrel, '80 Ducati Pantah 500SL, '92 DR350, '67 Honda SS50, '80 Honda Chaly.
Airhead Wrangler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2013, 03:02 PM   #17
R100RT Mark
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Georgia, USA
Oddometer: 295
The stock GS sump is like that on my R100R. If I recall correctly it holds a little less oil and has a higher full level for the oil it does have than my R100RT. I changed the sump and pickup on my R100R to the RT type to provide a little more capacity and to give more windage space due to the lower total full level. Seemed to help with oil consumption, but I only have anecdotal information on this. Might be something you could consider if you remain concerned.
__________________
Mark

Current - '74 TR5T : '93 R100R : '06 ST3s
Past - Variety of British, French, Italian, Czechoslovakian, and German bikes from the '70s, '80s and '90s
R100RT Mark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2013, 03:04 PM   #18
gsd4me
90% bluff
 
gsd4me's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Oddometer: 7,218
Quote:
Originally Posted by supershaft View Post
K+N filter? Like most people run them with no oil? Or with oil? With oil, they filter a lot better than paper. I have seen that turn out time after time after time servicing square airboxes. The stock paper filters are crap!

Maybe in the northern hemisphere they work perfectly , but down here, if you use them the engine is stuffed in a very short time.

My mechanic uses paper filters only and has the engines running around the country to prove their effectiveness.
__________________
David Hunn:
R100GS Ray Peake special.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...uild+australia
gsd4me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2013, 03:46 PM   #19
supershaft
because I can
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: San Francisco Bay area
Oddometer: 8,618
The dirt must be different down there.

Yes AW, they do need to be modified to fit right. Once that is done, they filter American dirt way better than the stock paper units. I have seen this play out countess times. That is when they are oiled properly which for some reason nine out of ten K+N's I see here on ADVR and in real life are not. It isn't hard to do and yet people don't do it?
supershaft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2013, 04:14 PM   #20
Biebs
BMW Airhead
 
Biebs's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Location: Cave Creek AZ
Oddometer: 460
Cry K&N Filters??

SS you seem to have been a victim of the K&N marketing machine. K&N does a great job of marketing their inferior product. BMW built a well designed and effective Airbox / filtering system.


K&N filter will give you 3 extra horsepower at 8500 plus RPM good luck!!!


It's all about martketing!!!
Biebs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2013, 08:08 PM   #21
supershaft
because I can
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: San Francisco Bay area
Oddometer: 8,618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biebs View Post
SS you seem to have been a victim of the K&N marketing machine. K&N does a great job of marketing their inferior product. BMW built a well designed and effective Airbox / filtering system.


K&N filter will give you 3 extra horsepower at 8500 plus RPM good luck!!!


It's all about martketing!!!
My opinion has absolutely nothing to do with marketing and at the same time I don't think K+N's get me any extra power. Not that much anyway.

I am a victim of my own experience. Being a professional BMW motorcycle mechanic, I have serviced a lot of airheads. I see the stock paper filter leaving square airboxes full of dust and dirt on a very regular basis. Many, many times over I have seen K+N filters keeping square airboxes by far the cleanest of any filter I have seen used in them. That's not marketing.

Personally, I have about 140,000 miles experience with them. I use them because they filter better than any other filter I have seen used as evidenced by my spotless airbox and snorkels. That just does not happen with the stock paper filters. At the very least, the box and snorkels get a lot of dust with the stock filters.

People use them at the race track for the same reason I do. They work! If something worked better, they would be using it. I mention it just because there is so much internet BS about them. And yet in the real world tons of people use them. Not just young know nothing wanna be's but long time experienced winners. That isn't because of marketing. It's because they work.
supershaft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2013, 08:16 PM   #22
bmweuro
Mad Scientist
 
bmweuro's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Chico, California
Oddometer: 3,406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayghost66 View Post
Hi All,

Just got back from a 2,750km extended long weekend ride through the US. My GS performed great but should I be concerned with the oil consumption? Here are a few details, if you could let me know your thoughts it would be appreciated. I just need to know if this is normal or if I might have an issue;
  1. I am the original owner (stating this because I know the complete bike history)
  2. Ridiculous amount of oil changes, sometimes at intervals of 2,000km. Absolute minimum of 42-50 oil changes since I've bought her. All I've documented in a log.
  3. Total mileage is 43,000km
  4. The ride we were just on was "spirited" lets just say "higher" highway speeds for extended amounts of time.
  5. I do have a 6% over 5th gear (thanks Bruno Machine)
  6. After the first 1,200km running like that I needed to add .4 litres of oil
  7. Another 1,200km I needed to add another .4 litre.
  8. Total consumption in 2,750km was 1 litre.
  9. When I left Toronto I was running 10w40 Golden Spectro Dino oil (cool out) and we hit some seriously HOT weather in the US. I started topping up with 20w50 MC oil.
Soooo what do you think? is the oil consumption what you would consider normal, or is pulling the heads, a valve job and new piston rings in this winters project "to do" list?

My friends can keep their Vstroms. I like my Airhead.

Grayghost
To get this thread back on track. It is known that if you fill an Airhead to the top line it will burn off the amount yours is or more. Try filling it about 3-4mm below the full mark and see if you still have a problem.
__________________
BOXER Metal
BMW Biker Scum
BMW Mad Scientist!
VBMWMO #7770, BMW MOA #48694 & Airhead BMW Club #600
bmweuro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2013, 10:08 PM   #23
supershaft
because I can
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: San Francisco Bay area
Oddometer: 8,618
Air filters and oil consumption are on the same track.
supershaft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2013, 10:26 PM   #24
gsd4me
90% bluff
 
gsd4me's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Oddometer: 7,218
I was at my mechanics workshop this morning to get an oil and filter change on my new 100GS. Normally we would wait until 15,000km before a filter change, but as it is a newly built up engine on an 1979 block, another filter change would not go amiss. Everything was nice and clean as it should be with two filter changes inside 5000 km (the first was done at 500 km). With a new filter, two litres only was put in the engine and after being run had settled to about a third of the way down the dip stick. We left it as it was.

I mentioned this thread to Ray and he told me of an 1200GS that he serviced a week or so ago.

Ray was tuning the engine but could not get it just right. He did an compression check and it was lower than it should be. Sure enough, there was an K&N filter fitted which the owner said had been in there most of the bikes life. The bike did a lot of dirt, but had less than 90,000km on it. About half the potential life of the engine was gone way before its time because of sub standard air filtration.
__________________
David Hunn:
R100GS Ray Peake special.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...uild+australia

gsd4me screwed with this post 05-22-2013 at 05:03 AM
gsd4me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2013, 10:42 PM   #25
supershaft
because I can
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: San Francisco Bay area
Oddometer: 8,618
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsd4me View Post
I was at my mechanics workshop this morning to get an oil and filter change on my new 100GS. Normally we would wait until 15,000km before a filter change, but as it is a newly built up engine on an 1979 block, another filter change would not go amiss. Everything was nice and clean as it should be with two filter changes inside 5000 km. With a new filter, two litres only was put in the engine and after being run had settled to about a third of the way down the dip stick. We left it as it was.

I mentioned this thread to Ray and he told me of an 1200GS that he serviced a week or so ago.

Ray was tuning the engine but could not get it just right. He did an compression check and it was lower than it should be. Sure enough, there was an K&N filter fitted which the owner said had been in there most of the bikes life. The bike did a lot of dirt, but had less than 90,000km on it. About half the potential life of the engine was gone way before its time because of sub standard air filtration.
Yup, they don't work without oil. That is IF the cause of the low compression was substandard air filtration. Surely Ray is like most BMW motorcycle mechanics having seen premature wear caused by ALL sorts of other causes. In my experience the number one cause would be lack of oil. You would be surprised just how many new boxers get run out of oil! With stock air filters too!

supershaft screwed with this post 05-21-2013 at 11:00 PM
supershaft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2013, 10:59 PM   #26
Phreaky Phil
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: NEW ZEALAND
Oddometer: 1,732
Oil consumption IMO probably valve guides. The BMW spec is like a barn door and can cause your motor to drink oil. Mine was using around 300ml per 500km and that was with new guides to BMW specs. I now run K liners with 1 thou clearance and use virtually no oil. One way to see is after a ride, shut the engine down without letting it idle long and take a carb off. If there is a little puddle of oil in the inlet below the valve then that is where the oil is going. You may be able to see a lot of carbon on the piston if you take a plug out and can shine a light in there with the piston near TDC.
Phreaky Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2013, 11:48 PM   #27
gsd4me
90% bluff
 
gsd4me's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Oddometer: 7,218
Quote:
Originally Posted by supershaft View Post
Yup, they don't work without oil. That is IF the cause of the low compression was substandard air filtration. Surely Ray is like most BMW motorcycle mechanics having seen premature wear caused by ALL sorts of other causes. In my experience the number one cause would be lack of oil. You would be surprised just how many new boxers get run out of oil! With stock air filters too!

Yes, he commented on how the newer boxer engines can use a lot of oil, but he has seen enough engines to know what causes certain problems and while you are entitled to your opinion, I value Rays experience and am prepared to be guided by him. For extreme conditions I would maybe add a couple of foam socks over the intake tubes just for personal peace of mind.

As an aside; my recently departed 1100GS would use about 200ml of oil every 5000 km, certainly not enough to need topping up and that was at 181,000 km. It had had a hard life before I bought it at 56,000 km and had spent a lot of time out Birdsville way, which is desert country. It only ever had paper filters.
__________________
David Hunn:
R100GS Ray Peake special.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...uild+australia

gsd4me screwed with this post 05-21-2013 at 11:57 PM
gsd4me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 12:32 PM   #28
hetkind
Adventurer
 
hetkind's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: North East TN - Shiny Side Up Motorcycle Rescue
Oddometer: 94
I only have about 1/4 million airhead miles, on stock filters...and a quart of oil/1k miles at highway speeds in a Texas summer is just about right.

Howard
hetkind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 06:10 PM   #29
WacoDirtryder
Gnarly Adventurer
 
WacoDirtryder's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: waco, texas
Oddometer: 301
Some airheads use more than others but a little over a quart in 1700 miles is not that bad in Texas but its pretty cool where he's riding.
WacoDirtryder is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2013, 02:10 AM   #30
gsd4me
90% bluff
 
gsd4me's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Oddometer: 7,218
Oil consumption depends on how they are ridden too. At the speed limit, keeping the revs down, my old R65 mono would use no oil. Getting up it at (high) highway speeds, oil consumption would increase markedly.
__________________
David Hunn:
R100GS Ray Peake special.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...uild+australia
gsd4me is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 08:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014