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Old 07-31-2013, 05:09 AM   #46
Mike_MRS
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Can a lot not be learned from the European and North African rallies? No need to reinvent the wheel.

Some guys are suggesting 3 days racing - that's all well and good but to make it attractive to guys like us in different countries it has to be 6 days racing at least. There is no point in spending the travel money getting over there for 3 days of racing, it's just not worth it. The cost of getting there is the same whether it's 3 days or 9 days etc.

Make it accessible as well. One thing that struck me re the Baja Rally was that the low numbers meant it sold out instantly yet a certain number of spaces were held back for whoever the organisers chose to invite or allow. I enquired about it and was asked to send a "racing resume" to be considered which frankly is a bit insulting for anyone, especially for those who want to try a race for the first time, it would/could put them off right away. It certainly turned me off the Baja Rally. Events need to be welcoming, especially to overseas competitors who are willing to spend the money to get there and support the event.
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Old 07-31-2013, 09:14 AM   #47
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+1 on the number of days. IMO, it's not a real "Rally Raid" unless it's a long, multi-day affair. The length, as well as the navigation, is what sets this unique sport apart from the other moto disciplines. 2-3 days doesn't bring bike and body reliability into the mix.

DaveRMS screwed with this post 07-31-2013 at 09:29 AM
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Old 07-31-2013, 09:46 AM   #48
Baja Dad
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You have some good points
A three-day event does not press the body and bike
I would love to see longer events here in North America
Meeting and racing with people from around the world is one of the best things in the Offroad community
I have Friends from all over the globe that I have met Racing in Baja
But:
Here in the states most people are lucky to get 7 to 14 days of vacation per year
With that in mind a three day race event actually turns into six days when you include travel
As for Racers coming to an event in North America
It sure has not hurt the Baja 1000!
Each year there are numerous competitors from all over the world
European razors razors from Asia razor from Australia New Zealand
South America & Central America.
As for the Baja rally , This is a first year event I applaud the promoter for taking it slow and not going in over his head too deep.
I do wish there were a larger number of competitors it would be nice to meet a lot more people From around the world.
In my opinion:
This event is just the start for great things to come in North America
Let's keep our eyes open and our dreams big
The diabolical will be upon us soon.
Be Safe keep it on two wheels
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Old 07-31-2013, 09:52 AM   #49
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You guys may have your wheels a bit too high in the sky. Keep in mind we are just getting started with this event. We have to deal with private land owners, environmentalists, politicians, emergency services, insurance, and others in order to have any race at all. In our case, in an all new racing location, they have absolutely no experience with this type of event. It’s easy for any one of them to say NO, and put an end to our whole dream. For the first year, we have to do whatever it takes to ease their concerns. If that means limited entries, or limited days, or adjustments to some other manageable aspect, that’s what we HAVE to do. After that, we’ll see what we have to do to survive, and what we’re allowed to do to grow. Don’t expect Diabolical 2014 to be the biggest greatest rally of all time. It may take a year or two to get there!
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Old 07-31-2013, 10:00 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by HogWild View Post
I’m working on a plan for a new cross-country rally in Northern Mexico, currently named the Diabolical Rally. It's a big-time real race, not another of my typical practice/training rides. I’m trying to decide a number of things. What do you want in a rally? What are your thoughts and opinions on these questions?

1. How many days of racing would you like? Remember there’s also a registration/tech day ahead of the first race day, and probably a half day after the final race day for awards.
2. How many hours of racing per day (assuming moderate to extremely challenging terrain)?
3. How difficult should the navigation be? Different difficulty on each day?
4. How difficult should the terrain be? Different on each day?
5. Would you like zero, one, or two optional short non-timed “practice” stages to get used to the roadbooks, unique navigation, and unique terrain in the area? Would you come one or two days early to do the practice stage(s)?
6. Would you like to camp in a bivouac, Dakar style, or pay for hotel rooms a ways away from the start/finish?
7. Are paved liaison sections a major pain, or a minor inconvenience? How far is too far if you have a morning and evening paved liaison?
8. Which would you prefer:
...a. Moving bivouac (i.e. Dakar and NORRA Mexican 1000, more liaisons, more taco stands).
...b. Fixed bivouac (stationary camp, no need for chase crew, no long drive back to the border after you're done).
9. Would you be willing to pay 3 times more if it was in Western USA instead of Northern Mexico?
10. What could be done to attract traditional Baja racers without turning it into another SCORE race?

How many of you would want in on the Diabolical Rally (assuming Mexico)? We’re aiming for no limits on entry numbers, but we need to get an idea how much interest there is.
I am a relative noob also, but would love to ride something like this. Here are my answers, for what it's worth. You'll get different answers from the experienced guys, obviously.

1. Figuring on a day pre/post rally, 4 days of racing sounds good and would start to stress bike/rider reliability. That would mean a week of vacation roughly.

2. 6 hours racing/day

3. I like the idea of navigation being a distinguishing skill, but I wouldn't want navigation to be *deliberately* tricky or intentionally misleading.

4. Terrain difficulty would be nice to have some variability. Maybe an easier/faster day after a rough technical day, for example.

5. One practice session to get used to the idea would be helpful.

6. Bivouac

7. Paved liasons are fine. I personally wouldn't want to knock off several hundred miles of pavement like Dakar prior to racing...maybe 1-1.5 hours on pavement at the most.

8. Moving bivvy is ok but would be better if it started/ended at roughly the same location at the end of the rally (i.e. a big loop) to avoid the long drive back (i.e. not a direct north->south route). Fixed bivouac is nice to not have the chase crew and much easier for service setup etc. I'd lean towards the latter if possible. Or maybe one fixed one for the first two nights, and move the location for the second two. Something halfway in between.

9. I *would*, personally, be willing to pay 3x more to race in the US (depending on what the rough fee for Mexico is...)

10. No input on this one. Baja to me seems to attract a different crowd than Rally Raid. There are lots of SCORE/BITD/Baja events. I'd hope this would be something completely different.

dc
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Old 07-31-2013, 09:15 PM   #51
ktmJOE
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I would need more details, but this sounds to me like a bucket list item

for an old racer with a fascination with Dakar.I do have a question

regarding the bikes to be used, are you going to leave bike size open

or are you going use something like the FIM classes? Thanks Fritz
Fritz, your 690 would be perfect for this kind of racing!
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Old 09-10-2013, 02:43 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by HogWild View Post
You guys may have your wheels a bit too high in the sky. Keep in mind we are just getting started with this event. We have to deal with private land owners, environmentalists, politicians, emergency services, insurance, and others in order to have any race at all. In our case, in an all new racing location, they have absolutely no experience with this type of event. It’s easy for any one of them to say NO, and put an end to our whole dream. For the first year, we have to do whatever it takes to ease their concerns. If that means limited entries, or limited days, or adjustments to some other manageable aspect, that’s what we HAVE to do. After that, we’ll see what we have to do to survive, and what we’re allowed to do to grow. Don’t expect Diabolical 2014 to be the biggest greatest rally of all time. It may take a year or two to get there!
This.

Scott, we also know you will do something diabolical.

I'm 100% with Charlie on his comments. Rattlesnakes found in sleeping bags will make a nice breakfast.

Will you announce things here? I would hate to miss out on the registration.
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Old 09-10-2013, 08:26 AM   #53
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Will you announce things here? I would hate to miss out on the registration.
Yes, it will absolutely be announced here. I hope to get the official announcement out in about two weeks. I thought we would get it out sooner, but my Diabolical partner Darren is getting married this weekend and he's been overloaded lately, delaying a few things.

I have one more stage to prerun, which will probably happen a week after Baja Rally. That last stage has a crazy element that might be too difficult navigation wise. I have to test the new concept and see if it works in that area in real racing type conditions. I don't want people getting lost, but I also want good navigators to have an opportunity to show their stuff.

Here are a few snips from the coming website, to wet your appetite ...





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Old 09-10-2013, 08:48 AM   #54
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Thanks for the new teaser pics Scott!
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Old 09-10-2013, 08:26 PM   #55
gagnaou
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This is looking very interesting! I am going to follow it closely.
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Old 09-10-2013, 11:08 PM   #56
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F. the XR isn't going to be the weapon for this fight.....
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I used to say "one day" a lot. But then I got scared I would wait one day too long. So I am doing it all now
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Old 09-11-2013, 12:02 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by beechum1 View Post
F. the XR isn't going to be the weapon for this fight.....
What's good for Dakar will be good for Diabolical. But if you're lost, what difference is it going to make anyway?

Have you ever tried target practice during an earthquake? I'm making arrangements for an "earthquake" on day 2 and day 4 just to keep it challenging!
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Old 09-11-2013, 12:55 PM   #58
Baja Dad
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I am in !!!!
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Old 09-11-2013, 12:56 PM   #59
Seth S
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HogWild View Post
What's good for Dakar will be good for Diabolical. But if you're lost, what difference is it going to make anyway?

Have you ever tried target practice during an earthquake? I'm making arrangements for an "earthquake" on day 2 and day 4 just to keep it challenging!

How about a Rhino stamping out the campfire in the middle of the night?

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Old 09-16-2013, 05:46 PM   #60
Baja Dad
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Any new news??????
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