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Old 09-23-2014, 07:42 PM   #1
kaput13 OP
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Where will Harley end up in ten years?

Some of us at the short end of the demographic line will be long gone by then but hey we can ponder.

And what other make is more fun to bash or gloat over.

I am a fan. There really is no more fascinating story in motorcycles. Harley Davidson has been almost singularly successful in keeping the romance alive.

Ask any clueless person about motorcycles... they say Harley.

But you know all that. What you may or may not know is:

Attend a Harley event in Europe, Japan, India or even in the Middle East and you still see more rabid passion than for any other brand - even Ducati.

Predictions of doom and gloom are due to an aging fan base. The street 500 and 750 are only a minor variation on a standard theme.

Out of left field comes LiveWire.

Where are they going???

What's your take?
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Old 09-23-2014, 07:43 PM   #2
kaput13 OP
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Where will Harley end up in ten years?

Some of us at the far end of the demographic line will be long gone by then but hey we can ponder.

And what other make is more fun to bash or gloat over.

There really is no more fascinating story in motorcycles. Harley has been almost singularly successful in keeping the romance alive.

Ask any clueless person about motorcycles... they say Harley.

Attend a Harley event in Europe or even in the middle east and you still see more rabid passion than for any other brand - even Ducati.

Predictions of doom and gloom are due to an aging fan base. The street 500 and 750 are only a minor variation on a standard theme.

Out of left field comes live wire.

Where are they going?
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Old 09-23-2014, 07:49 PM   #3
jersey jim
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I'd wager they'll have a slightly broader lineup than currently, including an electric bike, but the classic big twin stuff will still be their big seller. Probably need to do a ground up redesign of the big twin engine itself by then to maintain performance and meet emissions standards without melting the riders lower body into a puddle of sweat and melted jeans and boots, though.

They'll probably still sell more big cruisers than anybody else, but will have lost some market share to Indian by then.
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Old 09-23-2014, 08:16 PM   #4
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Old 09-23-2014, 08:19 PM   #5
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Harley is too dependent upon a particular style and layout of bike. They currently make heavy V-twin powered cruiser or cruiser-based bikes, period.

They generally do it very well, but I submit that their narrow portfolio is a liability and will increasingly be one as anybody who cares about "Easy Rider" ages out of riding.

Detroit already taught us what you get when you keep doing the same thing in a changing market because, hey, it always worked before.

Detroit also shows us the risks of putting all your eggs in one narrow basket. When truck/SUV sales fell off a cliff in 2008 they didn't have a broad selection of world-class products to offer as alternatives, so customers went elsewhere in droves.

Therefore, diversification is the name of the game.

Triumph proved you can do retro heritage bikes and thoroughly modern sport/touring/adv bikes at the same time under the same nameplate. I doubt their technical or financial resources are greater than those available to Harley. They may be an instructive point of comparison.

I see no reason why Harley could not field a credible USA-made competitor in the classes represented by (say) the FZ6, Speed Triple, or Tiger.

They were most of the way there with Buell, but ultimately failed due to a halfhearted execution and refusal to develop application-appropriate powertrains.

I don't think they're ready to make a run at the true top-level sportbikes simply because those are so very sophisticated and competitive, but they should be able to put together a standard damper-rod special to compete with a CB1100 or whatever without too much trouble.
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Old 09-23-2014, 09:05 PM   #6
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Most of the live wire parts do not come from Harley. Rumor is that the batteries an other items are being bought from Zero. Again, this is an unconfirmed rumor.

If the Idiots at Harley cold have actually done something with buell, I would be riding one right now. Instead, they build bikes for the lowest skilled riders in the world who want to get off work, dress like a tough guy and rie a few miles from bar to bar. There are exceptions to this group, and some really cool people on Harleys, but it is the wanna be tough guys who will always keep Harley in business. They arent going away, but someday their manufacturing will go away.
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Old 09-23-2014, 09:08 PM   #7
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In a dumpster behind the EBR factory.
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Old 09-23-2014, 09:18 PM   #8
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every manufacturer and partnership in the united states will be bankrupt and out of business within ten years . there will be no middle class . there will be no more welfare . there will be very few politicians who will appear in public . this country is doomed .
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Old 09-23-2014, 09:29 PM   #9
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The shocking thing to me with HD is what they do with their mfg/eng'g prowess compared to what hits the road. I've worked at a casting foundry that had pursued their business pretty aggressively and saw first hand the quality requirements and the ridiculous degree to which they analyze the most irrelevant details. All that adds up to quality where it doesn't matter, no quality where it does count, and ridiculous cost on the show room floor.
Take a look at Jap cruiser copy, which you can buy for A LOT LESS and will run better, longer and smoother - the style can be built and much much better. I just don't think HD wants to.
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Old 09-23-2014, 10:03 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_B View Post
Take a look at Jap cruiser copy, which you can buy for A LOT LESS and will run better, longer and smoother - the style can be built and much much better. I just don't think HD wants to.
Fascinating.
Quote:
But for the sixth consecutive year, Harley-Davidson also claims the market lead among young adults 18-34, women, African-Americans and Hispanics in the U.S., a collective the company calls “outreach” customers. In fact, Harley-Davidson’s internal data found its outreach customers are growing at twice the rate of its core customers in 2013 compared to 2012.
link
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Old 09-23-2014, 10:05 PM   #11
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I nabbed this spy photo of a model slated for 2024 from an industry connection.
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'Gonna get me a six pack...push people off the highway!'

"they live off the carrion of our mutual distrust and bribe us with symbols that equate hatred with manhood."

"I mean at the end of the day, I was addicted to Starting Fluid for Christ's sake!"

"Yeah, that guy sure is terrible at touching moms"
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Old 09-23-2014, 10:17 PM   #12
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Who knows? I sure wish the hell they would build a bike that I want. They own Crusiers hands down. everything else regardless of perceived quality is a wanna be Harley. Why cant they be like an American BMW? Why cant they build an adventure bike, and a bad ass V4 superbike? If they did, I would garb out on Harley shit and subscribe. Until then....
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Old 09-23-2014, 10:26 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by flienlow View Post
Who knows? I sure wish the hell they would build a bike that I want. They own Crusiers hands down. everything else regardless of perceived quality is a wanna be Harley. Why cant they be like an American BMW? Why cant they build an adventure bike, and a bad ass V4 superbike? If they did, I would garb out on Harley shit and subscribe. Until then....
Because you wouldn't actually buy it. Did you buy a Ulysses?
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"Yeah, that guy sure is terrible at touching moms"
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Old 09-23-2014, 10:28 PM   #14
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can someone merge this with the thread started one minute later?
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Old 09-23-2014, 10:32 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by domingo3 View Post
can someone merge this with the thread started one minute later?
No. They are quite different. I didn't post a photo of an Amazonas in the other one.
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