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Old 09-13-2013, 08:35 PM   #976
DudeClone
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Originally Posted by Roadscum View Post
It'll be interesting to see the results of a comparison with the Triumph when the mags get around to it. Early review I read indicated handling is not on par with the Triumph. FYI, there's more to good handling then simply upgrading suspension components, frame flex, steering geometry, to mention a few.

Having said that, I agree they will sell a lot of these to folks who may not want to pay the cost of having the best.

Regards, Paul
and that is the thing, too. how similar / dissimilar are the bikes? obviously this goes right at the ST. but does it do anything different or better then the ST? if not $1400 is not enough savings to keep anyone who wants a ST from getting one. even $2000 savings may not be enough. because as you said the ST is considered the best bike in its class by many and perhaps most. so this one will need to be sold to first time buyers, the curious, or those who don't want a ST for whatever reason? but to go head to head in the marketplace with the bike i would think this one would have to offer some things different or better then the ST for some riders?

but what might those things be? according to almost everything i have heard about the ST....its a near perfect motorcycle in its segment
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Old 09-13-2013, 08:42 PM   #977
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Some folks will buy it simply because it is a Yamaha.
Lots of historical goodwill between motorcyclist who have had Yamaha's in their current or past.
So no reason to believe only a newbie would consider it.

Doesn't HAVE to be "better" than the Triumph. But admittedly, it can't be a dud or beat handily by it either. (Doesn't look like it is from early reports)
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Old 09-13-2013, 08:56 PM   #978
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Ergos may also play a significant part in the decision making process. Checking with cycle-ergo.com, the ST bends my knees 8 degrees more and gives me a forward lean of 21 degrees over the more standard or dual sport style of ergos of the FZ. I know many like that sportier seating position, but at my age, the upright one is more for me.

Looks like you have to ring the ST's neck to get to where the power is, being a 675cc. Not everyone likes to spin the engine up all the time. Like has been said, there are many factors in deciding which bike is right for you/me...tp
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Old 09-13-2013, 08:58 PM   #979
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$2000
2k bucks is huge
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Old 09-13-2013, 09:06 PM   #980
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well, thanks for setting me straight on all that. and by the "curious" i did mean the Yamaha enthusiasts out there, too. who are curious about this bike. i am sure they will snatch them up

otherwise i have no personal experience with it but was recommended to look into a Triumph ST for a first MC. so i have and everything i turn up makes it sound like no other bike will do for an "all around" motorcycle. everyone seems to love the bike and are willing to pay more for it then its lower cost competitors
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Old 09-13-2013, 09:22 PM   #981
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Dudeclone, If you are deciding which bike is to be you first one, especially between the two being discussed, just wait for the FZ to be available and play with both. Hopefully, one of them will grab your heart, regardless what your head tells you.

Comfort, excitement, confidence inspiring, smile factor, etc. All are more important in the long run than cost, warranty length, what magazines and others say, etc. Just have fun with whichever one you chose.

FWIW, I'm speaking from 45years and 52 bikes worth of good and bad experiences.
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Old 09-13-2013, 09:25 PM   #982
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Originally Posted by dirtdreamer50 View Post
Ergos may also play a significant part in the decision making process. Checking with cycle-ergo.com, the ST bends my knees 8 degrees more and gives me a forward lean of 21 degrees over the more standard or dual sport style of ergos of the FZ. I know many like that sportier seating position, but at my age, the upright one is more for me.

Looks like you have to ring the ST's neck to get to where the power is, being a 675cc. Not everyone likes to spin the engine up all the time. Like has been said, there are many factors in deciding which bike is right for you/me...tp
Right, many factors and cycle ergo is not one of them. Test ride is the only way to go. Imo, first the looks, and than the rest. When I buy a car, it's a different story.

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Old 09-13-2013, 09:26 PM   #983
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well, thanks for setting me straight on all that. and by the "curious" i did mean the Yamaha enthusiasts out there, too. who are curious about this bike. i am sure they will snatch them up

otherwise i have no personal experience with it but was recommended to look into a Triumph ST for a first MC. so i have and everything i turn up makes it sound like no other bike will do for an "all around" motorcycle. everyone seems to love the bike and are willing to pay more for it then its lower cost competitors
Which competitors? MT09 is the first real competitor.

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Old 09-13-2013, 09:28 PM   #984
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Right, many factors and cycle ergo is not one of them. Test ride is the only way to go. Imo, first the looks, and than the rest. When I buy a car, it's a different story.

When you said cycle ergo is not one of the deciding factors, did you mean looking at the web site, or how you fit on the bike doesn't matter? If you're not comfortable, you probably not ride it much...Just curious, but I think you meant the site. Personally, I use the site to give me a general idea how I will fit on different bikes without having to go to several dealers just to sit on them all...
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Old 09-13-2013, 09:54 PM   #985
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The site. Numbers are fine, but far away from reality. First and the most important thing, there's no sag. Than the width, sweep... of the handlebar. Design of the seat, and so on. Once you sit on the bike, and the bike dives under your weight, you'll have completely different ergo figures. And then again, a lot depends on your riding style, and where you sit on the seat...


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Old 09-13-2013, 10:07 PM   #986
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The site. Numbers are fine, but far away from reality. First and the most important thing, there's no sag. Than the width, sweep... of the handlebar. Design of the seat, and so on. Once you sit on the bike, and the bike dives under your weight, you'll have completely different ergo figures. And then again, a lot depends on your riding style, and where you sit on the seat...


That's what I figured. Sag shouldn't change your seating dimensions, just foot contact to the ground when stopped. Seat, bars, and peg positions shouldn't change, as they are all bolted to the frame one way or another and the whole bike settles as sprung weight while the angles of arms, legs and torso remain the same, discounting the firmness or cushiness of the seat.
FWIW, the seating position, peg placement and bar placement can all be altered on that site to compensate for bar backs/ risers, peg lowers/rear sets, and seat changes. A lot of improvements have been made to the site over the past few months.
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Old 09-13-2013, 10:33 PM   #987
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True. It can give you a general idea to compare with other bikes, but ultimately test ride should be done. Even sitting on the bike is not enough.
Few years back i waited for the new super tenere to come out. Finally when I sat on it during presentation I was disappointed. It was an ergonomical disaster. No test rides were possible the first year. Eventually I got to try it a year and half later, and it was love at first sight. That's what I mean. ;)

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Old 09-13-2013, 10:45 PM   #988
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and that is the thing, too. how similar / dissimilar are the bikes? obviously this goes right at the ST. but does it do anything different or better then the ST? if not $1400 is not enough savings to keep anyone who wants a ST from getting one. even $2000 savings may not be enough. because as you said the ST is considered the best bike in its class by many and perhaps most. so this one will need to be sold to first time buyers, the curious, or those who don't want a ST for whatever reason? but to go head to head in the marketplace with the bike i would think this one would have to offer some things different or better then the ST for some riders?

but what might those things be? according to almost everything i have heard about the ST....its a near perfect motorcycle in its segment
Motorcycling is like music. Music reviewers can vote all they like that one type is "the best" but each bike has its own flavour.

If you are a bit simple you may just buy whatever someone tells you is the best, like some people just go out and buy the "100 best albums of all time" so they look cool. Others have an acquired taste built over years of experience.
Some may just go for the heavy metal rush, while others may take their time to get familiar with the subtleties and flavors of good blues music. Some may go for the Classics and know there are many flavors there as well. There are others who will be led to believe that Nirvana is "fahr'n fahr'n fahr'n auf der Autobahn". You know THAT ain't right!!

I'll listen to what suits me not the press.

Now back to our regular bike show.

A lot of comments on this forum point to people thinking a bike is about weight, power and the size of the front wheel. How does the YAMAHA stack up there?
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Old 09-13-2013, 11:12 PM   #989
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this whole bike world is pretty cool. i love riding and including motorcycles opens things up for me
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Old 09-14-2013, 07:24 AM   #990
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mt09 will be the anti euro snob backlash champion
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