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Old 06-03-2013, 04:27 PM   #1
mefadv OP
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Garmin Topo US 24K Southwest

Question to those who know... or may be using both.

My Garmin Topo US 24K Southwest is missing several dirt roads that my old pre-1999 Lowrance Ifinder was showing. ...and are still active two-track roadways in my area.

Would Garmin City Navigator show additional two-track roadways? Or will I have to go to another source for better off-road mapping? <<<Bummer>>>!

If so what are the suggestions.

Thanks for assistance...
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Old 06-03-2013, 05:43 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by mefadv View Post
Question to those who know... or may be using both.

My Garmin Topo US 24K Southwest is missing several dirt roads that my old pre-1999 Lowrance Ifinder was showing. ...and are still active two-track roadways in my area.

Would Garmin City Navigator show additional two-track roadways? Or will I have to go to another source for better off-road mapping? <<<Bummer>>>!
I don't use Topo maps in GPS because of too many lines. CN is good and shows most roads but I like old Roads & Rec as it shows hiking trails also.
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Old 06-03-2013, 05:43 PM   #3
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I had Garmin Topo for a while and it sux. IMO

City Navigator is the way to go and will most likely show all public roads paved and unpaved.
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Old 06-04-2013, 07:47 AM   #4
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I use both Topo 24k Sw and CN. I also use Topo 100k.

I have seen several instances where roads are missing from Topo 24k that show up on Topo 100k and vice versa.

I can't think of any specific examples, but I wouldn't be surprised if a few roads missing from Topo 24k show up on CN.

CN is my primary trip planning resource. If you can at all afford it, I would recommend buying it.

Two other big resources I use are Benchmark paper maps and when all else fails Google Earth.

Whenever I plan a trip I always check the roads out on Google Earth to make sure they exist.

But it is also important to find out land ownership. Minor roads thru private land are rarely open. I use various BLM maps for this.
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:26 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by wbbnm View Post
CN is my primary trip planning resource. If you can at all afford it, I would recommend buying it.
In the overall cost of recreational motorcycle riding, CN is the cost of one tire. If that is a cost problem, probably should switch to hiking.
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:29 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by wbbnm View Post
I have seen several instances where roads are missing from Topo 24k that show up on Topo 100k and vice versa.

I can't think of any specific examples, but I wouldn't be surprised if a few roads missing from Topo 24k show up on CN.
Out west, most of the good riding in on USFS & BLM lands which have been going to designated motorized rouites only. The real problem is not having any map set available which shows only the legal motorized routes.
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Old 06-04-2013, 11:49 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Countdown View Post
Out west, most of the good riding in on USFS & BLM lands which have been going to designated motorized rouites only. The real problem is not having any map set available which shows only the legal motorized routes.
I believe my old unit had the Road & Rec. map on it when purchased. Showed things of interest some trails and most dirt roads. However how can you find a copy of this on CD or ?

The purchase of CN would not take away my lunch money. Just see no reason to purchase it unless it will do a better job of showing available roadways. But it seems that each program is using somewhat different mapping systems.

Always consult the Benchmark maps. However when attempting to set a route on computer via a map program then transfer to GPS there are several dead-ends. Although Benchmark or Google may show the roadway continuing.

A good example.... BLM managed, Harquahala Peak Observatory, near Aguila AZ. Garmin Topo. shows nothing, Benchmark shows a roadway but not the correct starting point. However my old mapping system would take you all the way to the top! Even showing two foot-trails leading down the North side of the Mtn.

Don't understand... all the confusion.

Really do not mind the TOPO lines as it also names points of interest, peaks, mtn ranges, rivers, some mines, water tanks, etc.

So I guess I need to get a CN and see what it shows or does not show as the case may be...
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Old 06-04-2013, 01:01 PM   #8
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I have CNNA. If you provide some precise coordinates and a zoom level, I will go there in BaseCamp and grab a screen shot of what I see at the same zoom level and post it, if you like. You could also do that to show everyone what you are seeing, and then maybe someone with the same set as you can see if theirs looks the same?
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Old 06-04-2013, 02:47 PM   #9
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There is a road that runs between these two points. It is called the Harquahala Mountain Byway... Remains of an old Smithsonian institute Observatory on the top.


Harquahala Mountain N33 48.708 W113 20.819

N Eagle Eye Rd and Harquahala Mountain Bywy N33 43.675 W113 17.624

I'm not certain how to send image of my map...
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Old 06-04-2013, 05:40 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by mefadv View Post
There is a road that runs between these two points. It is called the Harquahala Mountain Byway... Remains of an old Smithsonian institute Observatory on the top.
While I haven't explored the area, in the past I have been by it and noted the "Observatory" location.

It is true that the AZ Gazetteer shows an route from Eagle Eye Rd. north toward Harquahala Mt which was the site of an observatory of some type which as I remember is abandoned. (Looked it up, abandoned in 1925).

An old version of R&R does show the route as an unnamed road of about 7 miles in length.
The same route in an old version of 100k TOPO shows the route ending at the site of the Monterey Mine, also unnamed and 3 miles long.
My somewhat old CN 2011 shows the "Harquahala Mt. Rd." length being 1 mile.

Obviously my maps all are using a different source for the road data which for CN doesn't surprise me at all however I did expect the TOPO and Gazetteer to more closely agree based on prior experience.

What does this say about the maps in question? Perhaps not a lot, because the route is a remote, old route up a mountain to an abandoned site (E of the summit is all wilderness). The BLM makes it sound like a steep rough 4X4 or OHV route.
From a related website:


ROAD TO HARQUAHALA OBSERVATORY


The road to the top is approximately 10.8 miles of rough gravel road once you leave the blacktop road. Elevation gain in that distance is about 3,360’. Kevin Hart and I made it to the top in 50 minutes with his Wrangler Jeep. The road is definitely a four wheel drive road moderately difficult on April 7, 2008 when we went to the top. However weather conditions and maintenance would change this rating to very difficult in one storm. Please be advised and proceed with caution. The day we were there is was extremely cold with a high wind; take a jacket and warm clothing just in case you encounter similar conditions.


mefadv have you traveled this route? What's on the ground?

Bruce
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Old 06-05-2013, 03:28 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mefadv View Post
There is a road that runs between these two points. It is called the Harquahala Mountain Byway... Remains of an old Smithsonian institute Observatory on the top.


Harquahala Mountain N33 48.708 W113 20.819

N Eagle Eye Rd and Harquahala Mountain Bywy N33 43.675 W113 17.624

I'm not certain how to send image of my map...
Here is what that area looks like in CNNA 2013.4. I dropped waypoint flags in the approximate spots of your coordinates. (I couldn't figure out how to make BaseCamp go to the precise spots). I do not have any topos of that area that I can see in BaseCamp.



Here is a view zoomed way in on the lower right of what is shown above. I have a measurement shown, as well.



To post an image in the forums here, you have to put the image up online somewhere, copy the location, then paste that location into the text box that comes up when you click the icon for inserting an image when making a post.
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Old 06-05-2013, 07:41 AM   #12
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Now that you have got the road shown on Basecamp, you could put a couple of waypoints on it or draw a route on it and use the View\Google Earth command to see what is actually on the ground there.


On an earlier subject. We are having good luck converting Travel Management MVUM maps to Custom Maps and viewing them in Basecamp and even downloading them to our Montanas and using them on rides.

I say "we" because a co-rider has done nearly all the work.

If the map is available online he does a screen grab and then uses Mapsource/Basecamp and Google Earth to get it georeferenced properly and create a KMZ file. The KMZ file can be loaded into Basecamp as a custom map.

If only a paper version is available, we scan it and then georeference it. I have done lots of Benchmark map pages this way too.
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Old 06-05-2013, 07:59 AM   #13
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If only a paper version is available, we scan it and then georeference it. I have done lots of Benchmark map pages this way too.
How many points do you use the geo-reference it?
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Old 06-05-2013, 08:11 AM   #14
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[QUOTE=mefadv;21565575]I believe my old unit had the Road & Rec. map on it when purchased. Showed things of interest some trails and most dirt roads. However how can you find a copy of this on CD or ?QUOTE]

I don't think it ever came installed.
E-bay
Not copy protected, a friend can burn you a copy.
All it is is USGS 1:100,000 maps. I am told you can get that here:
http://www.dl4all.com/software/39692...r-201-pat.html
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Old 06-05-2013, 09:53 AM   #15
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[QUOTE=Countdown;21572570]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mefadv View Post
I believe my old unit had the Road & Rec. map on it when purchased. Showed things of interest some trails and most dirt roads. However how can you find a copy of this on CD or ?QUOTE]

I don't think it ever came installed.
E-bay
Not copy protected, a friend can burn you a copy.
All it is is USGS 1:100,000 maps. I am told you can get that here:
http://www.dl4all.com/software/39692...r-201-pat.html

Thanks for the maps...
However your CN is showing the same roadways as my TOPO. It is approximately 6.6 miles straight line to the summit and 10+ by road.
Thank you as you have saved me some $ and frustration with the CN.
I would certainly like to have a copy of the Roads & Recreation... not crazy about downloading unless I have no other option. I have been watching Ebay for some time.
I'll send you a Pmail.
Thanks again for your assistance.


Is this site GREAT or what!
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