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Old 06-04-2013, 07:54 AM   #16
longtallsally
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Originally Posted by Anorak View Post
That certainly qualifies as an opinion but it may not fill the o.p. request for information. So, your Prius ownership experience has been poor?
Well said. I guess my point (other than disdain for hybrids in general) is that there is another viable option.

However (and going back to being brash), any comparison of anything done in San Francisco is irrelevant. That city- although very cool in some ways- is just defective (see Nancy Pelosi as exhibit A), and there is probably some city mandate that "x" percentage of hybrids must be used, and subsequently a tax on city residents to help offset extra costs to service providers. Who knows.

But I guess my point with the whole WVO thing was that you can:
1) Have the fuel delivered to your house (would be a nice convenience if doing 1k miles a month)
2) Actually be behind the wheel of a worthwhile vehicle (both environmentally and otherwise)

As I think about it even more, though, I'm kinda surprised that 1k a month is thought to be a lot. The norm for leases a number of years ago was 15k a year. I know that has dropped to 12k and even 10k I think based on market conditions, but 1k a month really doesn't very much.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my simple math gets me to 50 miles a day (assuming a 5 day work week). So my Pryus math (and I'm going to be very generous) that is 1 gallon a day. It is extremely easy to get something that is actually a decent car that will use 2 gallons (25mpg) a day. That is an extra $4 a day and adds up to an extra $80 a month.

Again, IMO, to have a worthwhile driving machine cost me an extra $80 a month, I'll take it. And I'm being VERY nice to the economy of the Pryus. Get a Honda Fit or another econobox and you are over 30mpg, and the more realistic figure for the Pryus is 40mpg, so that analogy I just drew can be further refined.

I dunno, pay cash for a car that is a few years old that drives correctly and costs well under $100 a month more in extra fuel, and is cheaper on insurance, and I think that is a better solution.

I worked for a startup that was trying to be "green" focused in the telematics company. The CEO wanted to follow that party line and got a Lexus RX hybrid. He struggled to get 26+mpg. When I told him my wife's 7 year old BMW that is full time AWD gets that or better on the freeway, he gave me that "you just kicked my dog" look.

I hope that offers a little productive food for thought. It's not mean to be incendiary.
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Old 06-04-2013, 08:09 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by longtallsally View Post
Well said. I guess my point (other than disdain for hybrids in general) is that there is another viable option.

However (and going back to being brash), any comparison of anything done in San Francisco is irrelevant. That city- although very cool in some ways- is just defective (see Nancy Pelosi as exhibit A), and there is probably some city mandate that "x" percentage of hybrids must be used, and subsequently a tax on city residents to help offset extra costs to service providers. Who knows.

But I guess my point with the whole WVO thing was that you can:
1) Have the fuel delivered to your house (would be a nice convenience if doing 1k miles a month)
2) Actually be behind the wheel of a worthwhile vehicle (both environmentally and otherwise)

As I think about it even more, though, I'm kinda surprised that 1k a month is thought to be a lot. The norm for leases a number of years ago was 15k a year. I know that has dropped to 12k and even 10k I think based on market conditions, but 1k a month really doesn't very much.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my simple math gets me to 50 miles a day (assuming a 5 day work week). So my Pryus math (and I'm going to be very generous) that is 1 gallon a day. It is extremely easy to get something that is actually a decent car that will use 2 gallons (25mpg) a day. That is an extra $4 a day and adds up to an extra $80 a month.

Again, IMO, to have a worthwhile driving machine cost me an extra $80 a month, I'll take it. And I'm being VERY nice to the economy of the Pryus. Get a Honda Fit or another econobox and you are over 30mpg, and the more realistic figure for the Pryus is 40mpg, so that analogy I just drew can be further refined.

I dunno, pay cash for a car that is a few years old that drives correctly and costs well under $100 a month more in extra fuel, and is cheaper on insurance, and I think that is a better solution.

I worked for a startup that was trying to be "green" focused in the telematics company. The CEO wanted to follow that party line and got a Lexus RX hybrid. He struggled to get 26+mpg. When I told him my wife's 7 year old BMW that is full time AWD gets that or better on the freeway, he gave me that "you just kicked my dog" look.

I hope that offers a little productive food for thought. It's not mean to be incendiary.
That's one hell of a strawman and red herring you have there. Waste vegetable oil is terrible for anything newer than an old indirect injection Mercedes or Volkswagen diesel. It carbons up everything.

In regard to hybrids, your apocryphal evidence of some guy you worked for who bought a big suv less efficient hybrid doesn't reflect on all of them. "Probably a city mandate for hybrids", the is probably a mndate that requires you to be a reactionary fool, too. The cab drivers in Frisco drive Priuses and Ford escapes because that what makes them the most money. I have taken apart high mileage Prius drivetrains and they are very reliable.

My Checy Volt managed 42 mpg on gasoline only at 75 mph on I-5. A prius will do better than a Volt running the i.c. engine only. I believe my stepdad's Prius 3 can get close to if not over 50 on the same drive. Your posts are completely worthless in this thread. because they are reactionary ignorance.

And, waste vegetable oil generates soot which is a carcinogen. As I recall, you are an avid bicyclist. When you exploit your aerobic capacity near a piece of shit old Mercedes Geleandewagen with its green, planet saving, waste vegetable oil burning geriatric OM617, you're breathing carbon neutral carcinogenic soot.

This doesn't apply to a modern diesel with a diesel particulate filter burning Biodiesel. They're very clean.
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Old 06-04-2013, 10:50 AM   #18
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It's news to me when a particular US city, due to its "defectiveness", makes a Japanese car less worthy for a individual anywhere but in that "defective city".

There's no mandate or subsidy for hybrid cabs in the defective city. When the Prius came out I was thinking this is an ideal taxi cab and wondered when the defective city would mandate them as cabs - and maybe wishing they would. They never did mandate that, and yet probably 40% or more of the taxi cabs in the defective city are hybrids.
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Old 06-04-2013, 10:51 AM   #19
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Dave, what kind of roof rack do you have on your Prius. I was looking to switch over my Yakima Q Towers, but Yakima's website doesn't show they make the needed Q clips for the newer Prius.
My Prius is a 2007, and the racks are Yakima. I don't know the model of towers, but I seem to recall having to order them since nobody local had them in stock. If you're looking at a brand new Prius, as long as the body style hasn't changed, it should be the exact same as last year's model. If you can't find what you need off of the website, give your local retailer a call, or just call Yakima themselves. They're very helpful, and quite pleasant in the couple of times I've called.

I wish I'd taken a picture. I just brought home 6 sheets of plywood on top of the racks this morning.

Usually, I'm carrying something long, or just won't fit in the hatch. I also have a Skybox I can put up there, and it doubles my already pretty good cargo capacity. Having the box up there knocks about 4-5 mpg off, but still getting over 40mpg with the cargo capacity of a full size SUV is OK by me.
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Old 06-04-2013, 11:05 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by longtallsally View Post
Well said. I guess my point (other than disdain for hybrids in general) is that there is another viable option.

However (and going back to being brash), any comparison of anything done in San Francisco is irrelevant. That city- although very cool in some ways- is just defective (see Nancy Pelosi as exhibit A), and there is probably some city mandate that "x" percentage of hybrids must be used, and subsequently a tax on city residents to help offset extra costs to service providers. Who knows.

But I guess my point with the whole WVO thing was that you can:
1) Have the fuel delivered to your house (would be a nice convenience if doing 1k miles a month)
2) Actually be behind the wheel of a worthwhile vehicle (both environmentally and otherwise)

As I think about it even more, though, I'm kinda surprised that 1k a month is thought to be a lot. The norm for leases a number of years ago was 15k a year. I know that has dropped to 12k and even 10k I think based on market conditions, but 1k a month really doesn't very much.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my simple math gets me to 50 miles a day (assuming a 5 day work week). So my Pryus math (and I'm going to be very generous) that is 1 gallon a day. It is extremely easy to get something that is actually a decent car that will use 2 gallons (25mpg) a day. That is an extra $4 a day and adds up to an extra $80 a month.

Again, IMO, to have a worthwhile driving machine cost me an extra $80 a month, I'll take it. And I'm being VERY nice to the economy of the Pryus. Get a Honda Fit or another econobox and you are over 30mpg, and the more realistic figure for the Pryus is 40mpg, so that analogy I just drew can be further refined.

I dunno, pay cash for a car that is a few years old that drives correctly and costs well under $100 a month more in extra fuel, and is cheaper on insurance, and I think that is a better solution.

I worked for a startup that was trying to be "green" focused in the telematics company. The CEO wanted to follow that party line and got a Lexus RX hybrid. He struggled to get 26+mpg. When I told him my wife's 7 year old BMW that is full time AWD gets that or better on the freeway, he gave me that "you just kicked my dog" look.

I hope that offers a little productive food for thought. It's not mean to be incendiary.
I don't think there are many modern vehicles that will take WVO anymore. I know the TDI won't. The owner's manual specifically says that WVO (or bio diesel in general) is verboten. I get the green argument. It is better to use a waste product for something useful.
I've also owned a couple of W123 bodied M-B diesels. They're fine cars that are made well, but I'd rather own something that was made in the last 20 years. Those 'Benz diesels are getting really old, the handling is sloppy, they're slow, and parts are getting rather expensive. It's also nice to have some modern safety features, like air bags, ABS, and such. If you want to have A/C in one, you're going to need to have the entire system retrofitted for the new refrigerant.

The other point you're making is to compare the Prius (not Pryus) to an econobox. They both get good mileage, and it's a common comparison to draw, but the Prius is actually a mid-sized car, and is usually outfitted with nicer options than the example econobox. Not an apples-apples comparison.

As for the insurance, I went from a 1983 M-B 300D to my current Prius. The difference in cost was less than $100/year. I have a good driving record, and I'm charged about $500-$600 year no matter what I drive.
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Old 06-04-2013, 11:20 AM   #21
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I think I just bought a late 70's 240D from a customer about half an hour ago. Wut??!!!!!
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Old 06-04-2013, 12:42 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Dave View Post
My Prius is a 2007, and the racks are Yakima. I don't know the model of towers, but I seem to recall having to order them since nobody local had them in stock. If you're looking at a brand new Prius, as long as the body style hasn't changed, it should be the exact same as last year's model. If you can't find what you need off of the website, give your local retailer a call, or just call Yakima themselves. They're very helpful, and quite pleasant in the couple of times I've called
I called Yakima this morning. They have stopped selling Q clips (used with their Q towers which is what I have) for any Prius newer than 2009-2010. They said Toyota changed the roof of the Prius around that time and the Q clips were causing trouble with some owners. They could not specify a time or if they will have a corrected Q clip. This is a big problem for me...I already have that rack system and don't want to buy something different. She said they do offer a system that mounts permanently (drilled into the roof), but I don't want to even consider that.
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Old 06-04-2013, 01:01 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Anorak View Post
I think I just bought a late 70's 240D from a customer about half an hour ago. Wut??!!!!!
Now that's just funny after lighting me up.

I'll take the blame for pulling the thread off track and bow out. I just wanted to present some thoughts. Also, the analogy of the hybrid economy was not to make a statement that they get poor economy, it was that they are not the godsend actors and other brainless twits think they are. All done. Carry on.
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Old 06-04-2013, 01:02 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Dave View Post
A Prius is a tool. It's not stylish, fast, or glamorous. Mine has hauled people, dogs, gone on vacations, carried lumber (roof rack), been stuffed to the gills to go to the dump. It gets awesome mileage, is cheap to operate, and it never, ever breaks.

The only thing I really don't like about it is that the traction control gives up way too easily, so if you're going to drive in snowy conditions, get yourself a decent set of tires.
Dave

What do you mean it gives up too easily?
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Old 06-04-2013, 01:24 PM   #25
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Old 06-04-2013, 01:49 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by longtallsally View Post
Now that's just funny after lighting me up.

I'll take the blame for pulling the thread off track and bow out. I just wanted to present some thoughts. Also, the analogy of the hybrid economy was not to make a statement that they get poor economy, it was that they are not the godsend actors and other brainless twits think they are. All done. Carry on.
There are a lot of assholes, morons, self righteous dipshits and godsend whatevers who ride BMW GSes...
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Old 06-04-2013, 02:20 PM   #27
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It isn't my favorite vehicle to drive. It helped a lot to ditch the low rolling resistance tires for decent M+S tires. Which we had to do because my work Prius replaced a compact pickup. But I have to say that Prius has been one of the most reliable vehicles we have ever owned.

It gets used every day to haul either a two man GPS or GIS crew. So this is commerical service five days a week by guys who really don't give a damn about the vehicle. The work they do usually involves driving all day on short hops between locations in the city. The Prius eats it up.

Most of the exterior plastic is gone and has been replaced with dents and scrapes. But nothing mechanical has broken in three years of abuse and even the interior is still in one piece. I could give a damn about the politics of the thing. It gets great mileage, has a lot of room for a small car and has been stone ax reliable.

It makes money for me. That I care about.
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Old 06-04-2013, 03:02 PM   #28
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I could give a damn about the politics of the thing. It gets great mileage, has a lot of room for a small car and has been stone ax reliable.

It makes money for me. That I care about.
Thanks...this is what I'm looking for, just saving me money instead of making me money. "Penny saved is a penny earned" though
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Old 06-04-2013, 04:25 PM   #29
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I'm thinking seriously about buying a new 2013 Toyota Prius Two. I've never owned a hybrid before, but I now need something really good on gas. I average probably 1000+ miles a month driving for kayaking and think the Prius may fit my needs pretty well. Real world MPG? Reliability? Hybrid battery/components life? Acceleration/power? Thanks.
if you're driving a lot of miles on the highway, there's nothing better than a TDI. If you're sitting in a lot of traffic, there's nothing better than a hybrid.

IMHO Priuses are uncomfortable and very pasticy on the inside, they roll on "low rolling resistance" tires to increase milage and from what Ive heard from multiple sources, one of the worst handling cars ever built.
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Old 06-04-2013, 04:28 PM   #30
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The Pryus is the enemy to motorcyclists as it replaced Volvo drivers as the worst machine on the road for mentally retarded lab rats hogging up the HOV lane here in Kalifornistan.
couldnt agree more. Ive never seen so many stupid things happen on the road in my life till I saw my first Prius. Take a look at one the next time you see one on the road - they are almost always destroyed on the outside.
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