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Old 06-05-2013, 12:17 PM   #16
Afry
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Just a note about twisted tubes - Bought my SE used and ran 3k miles on the rear tire (908) when I changed it out I found the tube (standard) was twisted over one complete turn inside the tire from a bad install(!).

There were two sections of the tube squeezed down where it was folded over that obviously had very little air in those sections of the tube.

Not knowing this I ran dirt down to Mikes in Baja and did another trip to Carrizo Plain and then high speed slabbed it home for 5 hours on Hwy 5 on this setup with no issues.

A little fold in a wrong sized tube is probably not an issue.
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Old 06-05-2013, 11:23 PM   #17
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My buddy actually folds a 21" tube over on itself when he uses one for a rear 18 or 19. Works fine until you can replace it with a proper size tube.
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Old 06-06-2013, 06:17 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by jon6.0 View Post
My buddy actually folds a 21" tube over on itself when he uses one for a rear 18 or 19. Works fine until you can replace it with a proper size tube.
And does he do so with a 150 size tire and 4.25 rim?

Here's the deal- we've all done it- use a 21 in a 18. But mostly on dirt bikes to get back to the truck, and with tire/wheel combinations that are pretty similar.

But on ADV bikes,there is no truck. The garage out of which we rode several days ago is a few thousand miles away. I don't want to break down the wheel/tire for a flat repair and put something in the tire that won't last until I get back to the garage.
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Old 06-06-2013, 11:05 AM   #19
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And does he do so with a 150 size tire and 4.25 rim?

Here's the deal- we've all done it- use a 21 in a 18. But mostly on dirt bikes to get back to the truck, and with tire/wheel combinations that are pretty similar.

But on ADV bikes,there is no truck. The garage out of which we rode several days ago is a few thousand miles away. I don't want to break down the wheel/tire for a flat repair and put something in the tire that won't last until I get back to the garage.
Well if you're not out alone in the middle of the Sahara desert - which I doubt, then I'm sure there will be a place to buy a correct size tube in let's say a max of a 1000 mile radius, probably half or less. IMO ADV riding is not about worrying about what might happen, or what is going to fail.. It's about enjoying the ride, and if something goes bad, then you improvise and solve the situation the best as you can.

Carrying a 21" and a 18" tube is way overshooting imo. Carrying a 21" tube.. well OK, but probably patches would be enough. I know of a guy (not the starbucks poser kind), who was filling (stuffing) the tire with grass, until he got to a place were he could buy a new tube. Ok, this probably won't work in the desert:)). Don't want to offend anybody, just sayin' how things work out when in a need..

Also for the OP, I don't get it why would anybody use a HD tube in Conti Attacks, or K60's (if that's what we are talking about).. Especially if 80% of the riding is on the road.
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Old 06-06-2013, 11:13 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by dwj - Donnie View Post
I worked in manufacturing facilities for tubes for over 26 years of my career in the rubber industry. I often read of people carrying a 21" tube as a spare for both front and back. These people often say the 21"tube will be good in the rear for 100 miles or so. While my highest position was General Manger of the total operation, I am not presenting myself as a technical expert. I came up through the production ranks. Anyway, when I carry a single tube as a spare, I carry something like a 4.50-18 or a 4.00-19. In my opinion, this is a much better compromise than using a 21 for a 17 or 18 inch tire. The main concern from a technical stand point is the amount of stretch put on the walls of the tube to fill the tire cavity. The 18 or 19 spread over a 21" wheel will introduce less stretch or thinning out than the 3.00 cross section of the 21" tube filling out the cross section of most 17 or 18 inch tires. If the tube is stretched too much filling the cavity of the tire, it will have thin spots that will tend to lose air pressure at a faster rate than normal. Have you ever had a tube that kept losing air faster than normal, but you could not find a hole? It might not have had a hole, it may have simply had one or more thin spots that were allowing air to pass at a greater rate than normal. This is a very simple explanation of a complex subject. BUT, AGAIN, I AM ONLY SHARING MY OPINION!
Thank you very much for your post...I learned something today,,,always a good thing !
Your life experiences are MUCH MORE valuable than 99% of the keyboard jockeys on here..
I never did "get" the carrying of a 21" tube for filling the space in a fat 18" rear tire...... would take ALOT of extra air to keep the tire properly inflated
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Old 06-06-2013, 11:15 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumi View Post
Well if you're not out alone in the middle of the Sahara desert - which I doubt, then I'm sure there will be a place to buy a correct size tube in let's say a max of a 1000 mile radius, probably half or less. IMO ADV riding is not about worrying about what might happen, or what is going to fail.. It's about enjoying the ride, and if something goes bad, then you improvise and solve the situation the best as you can.
Existential arguments aside,(for now) I don't want to change a tire twice when I can change it once.

I don't want to spend more time on the side of the road (trail, path, Sahara desert) than flying down (across) it.

So when it comes to spare tubes, I'm hoping to find one that takes a minimum of space and does not demand I change it AGAIN before going home.

But about that existential question- do you carry tools? Water? Patch kit?

Does that not contradict the whole "enjoying the ride, and if something goes bad, then you improvise and solve the situation the best as you can." ethos?

Granted, some folks get carried away. And while I spend no time in the Sahara, I DO spend time in the Mojave. It's big, and it's hot.
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Old 06-07-2013, 07:03 AM   #22
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Really how much is that extra proper 18 inch tube going to weigh or how much room is it going to take up.

Ya ok I am going to put a 21 inch tube in the back of a 500 pound offroad monster with a 4.25 width rim and trust it to keep me safe. No I don't think so.

So what's the big deal with carrying at least normal tubes in the appropriate sizes. Both will fit in the space under the seat along with the ktm tools, some Mineral oil and some wire. Maybe next time I want to pass that RV I sure hope I am not carrying that extra tube because it will weigh me down too much and make nervous about trying to pass that rv.
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Old 06-07-2013, 08:12 AM   #23
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Does any body use 'Slime' that bright green goo that stays in their tubes to seal a puncture ?
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Old 06-07-2013, 08:28 AM   #24
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Does any body use 'Slime' that bright green goo that stays in their tubes to seal a puncture ?
I have seen the results of people trying that stuff on dirt bikes. It rarely stays in the tube when there is a puncture. Most of the flats I have had on 9x0's were big tears in the tube.
Slime type sealants would just make the tube change a mess.

Something I found interesting is when you look at a 9x0 Adventure parts fiche, the rear wheel is spec'd with a 110/100-18 tube. That seems small for such a wide tire/rim combo.
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Old 06-07-2013, 08:45 AM   #25
dwj - Donnie
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Does any body use 'Slime' that bright green goo that stays in their tubes to seal a puncture ?

I have seen it be relatively successfully on torn punctures. But I have had it in tubes and have a nail puncture the tube and it was worthless!

BTW, earlier I stated that I use a 400/450-18 or 19 as a single spare for the rear as well as the 21" front. That is with a standard weight tube. It would be very difficult to get one of the ultra heavy duty 400/450 tubes into a 21" tire!
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Old 06-07-2013, 08:48 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Yardstick View Post
I have seen the results of people trying that stuff on dirt bikes. It rarely stays in the tube when there is a puncture. Most of the flats I have had on 9x0's were big tears in the tube.
Slime type sealants would just make the tube change a mess.

Something I found interesting is when you look at a 9x0 Adventure parts fiche, the rear wheel is spec'd with a 110/100-18 tube. That seems small for such a wide tire/rim combo.
Ditto, wouldn't put slime because if it fails and you have to change tube anyways that's going to suck. Going to be a mess... Besides, changing tubes in the wild is good for you. I always carry a rear and front spare under my seat on my SE. Better to have two tubes in case I pinch one trying to repair which has happened... I have seen people run 21s in the rear for hundreds of miles at high speeds. Not going to give names though!
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Old 06-10-2013, 02:24 PM   #27
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I've noticed a lot of speculation and guessing on what size tubes may or may not fit the 950/990 bikes correctly
Here is a photo of a made in China Pirelli tube that came out of a brand new 2013 990 Baja and the sizes it fits


Here is a shot of a made in Japan Bridgestone HD 110/100-18 and the other sizes listed on it.


The Pirelli tube is physically smaller than the Bridgestone even though the Pirelli shows the 150/70-18 and the Bridgestone only goes as high as the 140/80-18. Tubes fit a large range of tire sizes and the label on the outside of the tube package only shows one and the rest are on the tube itself. Buying a quality tube and using good installation technique and keeping them inflated properly will minimize most flats and the chance of having a blowout. I rarely get flats and I try to do everything I can to avoid them because one flat can ruin my whole day of riding depending on where I am and how hot it is. Changing a tube on the road or trail is a pain in the ass at best so I avoid it as much as possible. YMMV.
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Old 06-10-2013, 02:56 PM   #28
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Good discussion, and I'm not disagreeing.

But.


The 2013 Baja comes with a tire that's out of spec for the rim and wobbles like a weeble, so I'm disinclined to use that as a benchmark.

(yes, I know- the 908 is only unstable for a thousand or so miles, then it's less-unstable. But damn good off-road )
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Old 06-10-2013, 03:10 PM   #29
dwj - Donnie
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Originally Posted by catalina38 View Post
I've noticed a lot of speculation and guessing on what size tubes may or may not fit the 950/990 bikes correctly
Here is a photo of a made in China Pirelli tube that came out of a brand new 2013 990 Baja and the sizes it fits


Here is a shot of a made in Japan Bridgestone HD 110/100-18 and the other sizes listed on it.


The Pirelli tube is physically smaller than the Bridgestone even though the Pirelli shows the 150/70-18 and the Bridgestone only goes as high as the 140/80-18. Tubes fit a large range of tire sizes and the label on the outside of the tube package only shows one and the rest are on the tube itself. Buying a quality tube and using good installation technique and keeping them inflated properly will minimize most flats and the chance of having a blowout. I rarely get flats and I try to do everything I can to avoid them because one flat can ruin my whole day of riding depending on where I am and how hot it is. Changing a tube on the road or trail is a pain in the ass at best so I avoid it as much as possible. YMMV.

The speculation and guessing is not as to what size tube is the perfect fit for a specific tire, it concerns what would be the best size to carry if one was only going to carry a single tube as a spare.

As far as the size differences you see on the tubes, within reason, it can be what the purchaser wants. For example, If you want to purchase 5,000 4.00-18 tubes from a manufacturer and your brother wants to purchase 5,000 4.25/450-18 tubes from the same manufacturer, GUESS WHAT, all 10,000 tubes will probably be made to exactly the same dimension and "cured" in the same mold(s). This is not speculation, I manufactured tubes for many many years.

If you study the size coverage on the tubes you picture, you will see tube size placement in a tire has a substantial amount of give and take. The two main variables that you need to consider is thinning out the tube too much when it inflates in a tire which will cause faster than normal air loss. And, excessive wrinkles if the cross section of the tube is too great which "could" cause a failure at excessive speed for an extended time.

But of course, you can always carry two spare tubes.
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Old 06-10-2013, 03:46 PM   #30
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Good discussion, and I'm not disagreeing.

But.


The 2013 Baja comes with a tire that's out of spec for the rim and wobbles like a weeble, so I'm disinclined to use that as a benchmark.

(yes, I know- the 908 is only unstable for a thousand or so miles, then it's less-unstable. But damn good off-road )
I thought the 908 rear was fine. The 908 front sucked balls though. A T63 front fixed her right up.
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