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Old 05-14-2015, 10:55 AM   #1
ohgood OP
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KDX replacement woods bike ?

i have a kdx 220 that is tagged, and i love the handling and tight words characteristics. the power is plenty for my needs.

here is my main issue: internal crank seals

I've split the cases and dove or myself, but failed at some point, and it's eating is transmission fluid. I've spent more than two months trying to repair all the problems on the bike and have had enough of it.

in the future if like to have a similarly powered two stroker, with similar (or lighter!) weight, and the most important part :

1 it must have crank seals that are replaceable WITHOUT splitting the cases.

2 a lighting coil

3 yes, there is a very tight budget, no "new" bikes, or even 5 year old bikes need apply unless they're really close to free.


hit me with your suggestions. I'm open to any tight woods bikes.

thanks
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Old 05-14-2015, 11:18 AM   #2
dhallilama
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Husqvarna?
I was looking for a new woods bike, too... 2 stroke, lighting, enough power to keep me amused... went a bit further that I eventually wanted a 6 speed. oh, and it had to be cheap. narrowed it down petty quickly.

I ended up getting a project '96 WXC 250.

the WR/CR Huskies are relatively cheap, all have a lighting coil and the seals are replaceable without splitting cases.

after getting mine, I had a chance to take a WR125 with a 144 kit for a spin... that thing was low weight, and nimble!
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Old 05-14-2015, 04:08 PM   #3
tHEtREV
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Gas Gas 200/250/300.

I had a 91 KDX200 and really liked the engine on it, replaced it with a 2000 KTM 200 EXC and just didn't get along with it.

I actually preferred the KDX.

Had a 98 WR250z around the same time and hated it for anything but gravel roads.

Decided I just wasn't a 2 stroke person like I thought I was.

Few years later I decided to get another KDX, but found an 07 Gas Gas EC 250 at a good price and took a punt.

The Gasser has every thing I liked about the KDX, with everything I liked in the EXC.

It has a nice tractable engine like the KDX, but still has enough up top.

When I first rode my 525 on a steep rocky hill it felt like cheating after years of struggling with two strokes not finding traction and spinning up every where, but the Gasser tractors up them in a very similar manner to the 525.

I don't have any thoughts about getting another KDX (but don't tell anybody).
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Old 05-14-2015, 04:21 PM   #4
RustyStuff
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My same complaint with the KDX engine. Mine is in 100 peice due to those damn seals.

I wonder if you could remove the bosses that stop the seals from coming out via the clutch and stator covers and add in a removable stop?

Or would the seals stay in place even with the bosses removed, some sort of bearing race type lock tight?


Your KDX didn't have a lighting coil? I thought they all did.
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Old 05-14-2015, 04:38 PM   #5
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I went from a KDX 220 to a KTM 200 EXC, definitely an upgrade.
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Old 05-14-2015, 04:56 PM   #6
The Flyin Hawaiian
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One of the reasons the Kawi crank seals are leaking, in my opinion, is because of the ethanol in todays fuel. My wife and I race enduros on KX250 2 strokes. We bought leftover 04 KX250s and raced them without issues for a season. In 06 or so they introduced ethanol in the fuel here in NJ. All of a sudden we started having crank seal issues. Ive been racing enduros for 20 or so years and never had crank seal issues before. It didnt dawn on us at the time but I was splitting cases twice a year per bike. We tried different oils, ratios, trans oils etc. Even new cases. We switched to a 50/50 mix of 110 race and pump. Our seals went a whole season. I replaced them with Viton seals from Cometic and switched to straight 110 race fuel and rejetted for it. We've had the same seals in them for the last 3 years now, actualy one of them have the OEM seals in it and its still going strong.My KX500 has the oem seals in it and I only run race gas in it. Its expensive but it beats splitting cases constantly.
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Old 05-14-2015, 06:19 PM   #7
ohgood OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyStuff View Post
My same complaint with the KDX engine. Mine is in 100 peice due to those damn seals.

I wonder if you could remove the bosses that stop the seals from coming out via the clutch and stator covers and add in a removable stop?

Or would the seals stay in place even with the bosses removed, some sort of bearing race type lock tight?


Your KDX didn't have a lighting coil? I thought they all did.
yes, all the kdx have lighting coils, I'm just making a point that it's one of my requirements for the next bike.

when i had the cases split, i was thinking the same thing about grinding out the bosses and drilling/tapping a keeper for the seals. it wouldn't be difficult, and your also right about the seals staying in place. they're a press fit, so they aren't going to just jump out unless there is a blockage in the pipe, or something really bad happens.

i see a lot of people leaning towards the KTM 200 series. I'm fine with that... and have zero brand loyalty. so they have the easily replaceable seals i was hoping for ?

is be willing to sell my supermoto and kdx if need be, to afford a reliable two stroke. love riding these things, but just can't see keeping up with the kdx's problems down the road.

thanks
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Old 05-15-2015, 04:33 AM   #8
stainlesscycle
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generally i only replace seals once - when i get the bike. i run 50/50 112/93 and have not had a seal go in a long time after replacement (many years), unless there's a mechanical reason - bearing etc... i don't know if it's the ethanol, or what, but that is a pretty good theory. generally crank seals don't fail often, unless the bike has sat a long time (dry/cracked or fuel eating the seals from setting) - you may be on to something there with the ethanol and crank seals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Flyin Hawaiian View Post
One of the reasons the Kawi crank seals are leaking, in my opinion, is because of the ethanol in todays fuel. My wife and I race enduros on KX250 2 strokes. We bought leftover 04 KX250s and raced them without issues for a season. In 06 or so they introduced ethanol in the fuel here in NJ. All of a sudden we started having crank seal issues. Ive been racing enduros for 20 or so years and never had crank seal issues before. It didnt dawn on us at the time but I was splitting cases twice a year per bike. We tried different oils, ratios, trans oils etc. Even new cases. We switched to a 50/50 mix of 110 race and pump. Our seals went a whole season. I replaced them with Viton seals from Cometic and switched to straight 110 race fuel and rejetted for it. We've had the same seals in them for the last 3 years now, actualy one of them have the OEM seals in it and its still going strong.My KX500 has the oem seals in it and I only run race gas in it. Its expensive but it beats splitting cases constantly.
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Old 05-15-2015, 04:57 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tHEtREV View Post
Gas Gas 200/250/300.

I had a 91 KDX200 and really liked the engine on it, replaced it with a 2000 KTM 200 EXC and just didn't get along with it.

I actually preferred the KDX.

Had a 98 WR250z around the same time and hated it for anything but gravel roads.

Decided I just wasn't a 2 stroke person like I thought I was.

Few years later I decided to get another KDX, but found an 07 Gas Gas EC 250 at a good price and took a punt.

The Gasser has every thing I liked about the KDX, with everything I liked in the EXC.

It has a nice tractable engine like the KDX, but still has enough up top.

When I first rode my 525 on a steep rocky hill it felt like cheating after years of struggling with two strokes not finding traction and spinning up every where, but the Gasser tractors up them in a very similar manner to the 525.

I don't have any thoughts about getting another KDX (but don't tell anybody).


This. the Gas Gas has better gearing. Not sure when but KTM stopped making a close ratio 200. Probably wouldn't matter if you run a Recluse, but I don't like W's in the woods.

The 200 KTM is probably the closest to a direct replacement for weight, power, feel.
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Old 05-15-2015, 01:19 PM   #10
RustyStuff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Flyin Hawaiian View Post
One of the reasons the Kawi crank seals are leaking, in my opinion, is because of the ethanol in todays fuel. My wife and I race enduros on KX250 2 strokes. We bought leftover 04 KX250s and raced them without issues for a season. In 06 or so they introduced ethanol in the fuel here in NJ. All of a sudden we started having crank seal issues. Ive been racing enduros for 20 or so years and never had crank seal issues before. It didnt dawn on us at the time but I was splitting cases twice a year per bike. We tried different oils, ratios, trans oils etc. Even new cases. We switched to a 50/50 mix of 110 race and pump. Our seals went a whole season. I replaced them with Viton seals from Cometic and switched to straight 110 race fuel and rejetted for it. We've had the same seals in them for the last 3 years now, actualy one of them have the OEM seals in it and its still going strong.My KX500 has the oem seals in it and I only run race gas in it. Its expensive but it beats splitting cases constantly.
You may be onto something. We have a new gas station opening up that advertises pure 92. I may try and only run that.
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Old 05-15-2015, 02:06 PM   #11
MATTY
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What about a yamaha, the DT200 WR is a solid reliable road trail bike.
Or if you dont like Yams go with a TSR 200 suzuki.
Something i like about the oddball 200s they punch over their weight, they are not 250s but its no major loss in everyday performance. .

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Old 05-15-2015, 06:00 PM   #12
stevo7706
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I can't speak specifically about KDX, but for KX's and YZ's, using red Loctite and driving the seals perfectly square with a seal driver ( not a socket) works well. The KTM 150 is a sweet bike.
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Old 05-16-2015, 06:06 AM   #13
The Flyin Hawaiian
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Seal drivers used over here. The old seals would be hard around the sealing edge when removed.
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Old 05-16-2015, 07:57 AM   #14
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Old 05-17-2015, 08:23 AM   #15
GarageRat
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The Bultaco has the slickest set up ever for changing out crankseals. A competent garage putterer can have the work done before the coffee gets cold.

Of course there is a downside, they aren't manufactured anumore, though there are plenty of them out there still smokin' up the woods. if riding a vintage machine doesn't freak you out, it's a great way to go.
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