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Old 06-17-2013, 09:03 PM   #1
81forest OP
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Talk to me about building a dual sport wheel set!

I ride a plated KTM 450 RFS, and I've been venturing out further and further into the occasional dual sport ride, but I also ride single track any chance I get. Swapping tires the night before a ride kind of sucks, and so does riding the MX tires on fifty miles of highway. I'd also like a cush hub for the pavement. People will tell me to get the DOT-legal trials tire, but I have another idea...

I have a wrecked front wheel that I got for free, and a rear wheel from an older LC4 (with the cush). Both rims are shot, but hubs are good. A pair of Warp 9 rims is $200 on ebay, spokes are about $40 per wheel. I have a Black Widow motorcycle wheel truing/balancing stand, and I have been building bicycle wheels for over ten years. I already have some DS tires; I could have a whole new wheel set for under 3 bills with the pride of doing it myself, plus on black spokes and rims! Thoughts or advice from folks who have built their own wheels? Any good books or web links to recommend?

I figure it can't be that different from bicycle wheel building.
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Old 06-18-2013, 06:51 AM   #2
kubiak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 81forest View Post
I ride a plated KTM 450 RFS, and I've been venturing out further and further into the occasional dual sport ride, but I also ride single track any chance I get. Swapping tires the night before a ride kind of sucks, and so does riding the MX tires on fifty miles of highway. I'd also like a cush hub for the pavement. People will tell me to get the DOT-legal trials tire, but I have another idea...

I have a wrecked front wheel that I got for free, and a rear wheel from an older LC4 (with the cush). Both rims are shot, but hubs are good. A pair of Warp 9 rims is $200 on ebay, spokes are about $40 per wheel. I have a Black Widow motorcycle wheel truing/balancing stand, and I have been building bicycle wheels for over ten years. I already have some DS tires; I could have a whole new wheel set for under 3 bills with the pride of doing it myself, plus on black spokes and rims! Thoughts or advice from folks who have built their own wheels? Any good books or web links to recommend?

I figure it can't be that different from bicycle wheel building.
its the same as bicycle wheels as far as i can see. i have done over a dozen wheels and its super easy. if you can take a pic of a wheel done so you can see the spoke pattern just in case.
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Old 06-18-2013, 06:54 AM   #3
mcma111
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See if this helps:

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=785921

If you don't want to build them send them my way.
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87 Harley FXRS-SP ~ 06 KTM 625 SMC ~ 72 Honda CB750/915cc ~ 92 XR600/654cc ~ 95 XR650l/675cc ~ 03 CRF450r ~ 05 CRF450x ~ 02 XR650l/675cc ~ 86 YZ490 ~ 93 YZ80 ~ 93 XR650l Project
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Old 06-18-2013, 08:57 AM   #4
81forest OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcma111 View Post
See if this helps:

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=785921

If you don't want to build them send them my way.
Excellent post, that is exactly what I was looking for. That is a really nice truing stand! I use a dishing tool for the bicycle wheels that I think will work for moto wheels as well.

I might purchase those Buchanan spokes to get that lube. I use a product called "spoke prep" by Wheelsmith for bicycle spokes but I think it might not be ideal for moto spokes. But maybe it could work?

http://www.wheelsmith.com/ourtools.html
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Old 06-18-2013, 09:05 AM   #5
mcma111
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I don't think your dish tool will work unless your building 20" or 700c size wheels.

The spoke lube Buchanans sends is for the stainless spoke and stainless nipples to keep them from galling.
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BMW's
58 R26
79 R100s
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87 Harley FXRS-SP ~ 06 KTM 625 SMC ~ 72 Honda CB750/915cc ~ 92 XR600/654cc ~ 95 XR650l/675cc ~ 03 CRF450r ~ 05 CRF450x ~ 02 XR650l/675cc ~ 86 YZ490 ~ 93 YZ80 ~ 93 XR650l Project
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Old 06-18-2013, 12:22 PM   #6
81forest OP
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Originally Posted by mcma111 View Post
I don't think your dish tool will work unless your building 20" or 700c size wheels.

The spoke lube Buchanans sends is for the stainless spoke and stainless nipples to keep them from galling.
Hmmm. In my understanding for bicycle wheels, proper dish is achieved by simply making sure the rim is centered over the axle, rather than being centered over the hub flanges. For bikes, a dish tool is not necessary, it just makes the job easier and quicker. You could properly dish a wheel without the tool by taking it out of the stand and putting it back in the opposite direction, and comparing the run-out against the caliper in the truing stand. When the caliper is the same distance to the rim when you flip the wheel over in the truing stand, the wheel is dished. That is a crappy explanation and I may be missing something. Thoughts? The basic idea is that the rim is dished when it is exactly centered between the two points on the axle that are clamped in the frame.

I would not trust measuring the dish of the old wheel, because you couldn't be sure it was correct unless you put the wheel in the stand and checked for even run-out on each side. Correct?
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Old 06-18-2013, 12:38 PM   #7
mcma111
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Your idea of dish is correct. I was just commenting that your bicycle tool will not work as the rim is only 18 or 21" where as the bicycle rim the tool is designed for is 27". Size matters.

Before you disassemble the wheels measure them mounted on the bike. Centered in the forks and swingarm.
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BMW's
58 R26
79 R100s
91 R100gs

87 Harley FXRS-SP ~ 06 KTM 625 SMC ~ 72 Honda CB750/915cc ~ 92 XR600/654cc ~ 95 XR650l/675cc ~ 03 CRF450r ~ 05 CRF450x ~ 02 XR650l/675cc ~ 86 YZ490 ~ 93 YZ80 ~ 93 XR650l Project
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Old 06-18-2013, 03:56 PM   #8
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i built the wheels on my 450 SMR... set of 17's w/a cush, and a 18 rear w/a cush also for dirt.... if you get the spokes/rims from woody's or buchanan's, your gonna get the right ones for your rims/hub. there's angles reamed in the rim dimples to agree w/your hub..... they pretty much just tighten up correctly.... if you get cheapo warp 9 or ebay shizzit, who knows?... there's alotta voodoo in the rim holes/drilling angles and how they work w/the spokes/hubs, so if you get them from a good place and it's set up right, it's really pretty easy.... if it ain't set up right, it's not gonna be good..... i like my shizzit tight when i'm goin' fast, you dig?.....
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Old 06-18-2013, 06:53 PM   #9
81forest OP
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Laugh

Thanks for the info, much appreciated. I did not know that the dimples on the rim were specific to the manufacturer's hub... weird. Voodoo is right!

mcma111, I think I have to powder coat these hubs now after those candy-apple beauties in your thread. Plus install new bearings. With the cost of an Excel rim from Buchanan's at $216, there goes my sub-$300 wheel set!
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Old 06-18-2013, 07:00 PM   #10
Roland44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcma111 View Post
See if this helps:

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=785921

If you don't want to build them send them my way.
Great thread! Very useful. I think I am gonna go this route...
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Old 06-18-2013, 07:22 PM   #11
81forest OP
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Regarding the bike-specific dimples, the Excel website shows the same part number for a 21X1.60 rim between all five manufacturers...

http://www.rkexcelamerica.com/mx_exc...es.html#ktmrim
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Old 06-18-2013, 07:38 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 81forest View Post
Regarding the bike-specific dimples, the Excel website shows the same part number for a 21X1.60 rim between all five manufacturers...

http://www.rkexcelamerica.com/mx_exc...es.html#ktmrim
I think the "index" of the rim (how the holes are angled) for your RFS is the same as the Japanese bikes. There is an issue for Husaberg and KTM 640s where the index of the rim is different (probably more). See here for more details if you want it: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...&postcount=621
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Old 06-19-2013, 04:22 AM   #13
mcma111
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I'll save you some money. This is where I buy my Excel rims:



http://www.ksrwheels.net/productcart...?idCategory=48
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BMW's
58 R26
79 R100s
91 R100gs

87 Harley FXRS-SP ~ 06 KTM 625 SMC ~ 72 Honda CB750/915cc ~ 92 XR600/654cc ~ 95 XR650l/675cc ~ 03 CRF450r ~ 05 CRF450x ~ 02 XR650l/675cc ~ 86 YZ490 ~ 93 YZ80 ~ 93 XR650l Project
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Old 06-19-2013, 01:05 PM   #14
81forest OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcma111 View Post
I'll save you some money. This is where I buy my Excel rims:



http://www.ksrwheels.net/productcart...?idCategory=48
Thanks a million! What a great store, even had the wheel bearings. I am placing the order today as soon as I get the rear spoke length figured out. I'll post updates!
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Old 06-19-2013, 01:09 PM   #15
mcma111
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Spokes

Call Buchanan's for the spokes.
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Steve in SF

BMW's
58 R26
79 R100s
91 R100gs

87 Harley FXRS-SP ~ 06 KTM 625 SMC ~ 72 Honda CB750/915cc ~ 92 XR600/654cc ~ 95 XR650l/675cc ~ 03 CRF450r ~ 05 CRF450x ~ 02 XR650l/675cc ~ 86 YZ490 ~ 93 YZ80 ~ 93 XR650l Project
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