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Old 11-25-2013, 06:06 AM   #1
oldbmw OP
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Question 450 watt enDuraLast

Anybody sell this kit for less than $499?

http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/Pro...DL450%2DALTKIT


Thanks
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Old 11-25-2013, 07:49 AM   #2
Sutherngintelmen
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I used this one on an 84 r80, went on clean and working well.

http://www.motoelekt.com/charging.htm

Not an expert so unable to compare the two past what's on www.
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Old 11-25-2013, 08:09 AM   #3
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EnDuralast

I like the enDuraLast system better. No diode board, no brushes. Just looking for the best price out there.
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Old 11-25-2013, 09:20 AM   #4
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The only other fixed-magnet systems I know of are Power Dynamo and Silent Hektik. The PD system is low-power, equal to a stock /5. Great for a bike that won't have extra electrics, but not so good for the usual road/touring bike. Includes ignition, BTW. Guys on this board (and elsewhere) use it on rally and desert bikes since it's low-cost and durable, and they're not running big light kits and heated grips and jackets.

The SH system looks really good. Alternator kit, shipped to US from Germany, is ~500 Euros (~$675 today).

I'm pretty sure EME is the only seller for their own system.
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Old 11-25-2013, 09:37 AM   #5
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Shopping

Okay, I was hoping for any Vendors selling for less.
Thanks for the input.
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Old 11-25-2013, 10:34 AM   #6
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Diodes and brushes? There are a lot of good reasons why practically everything out there uses brushes and diodes over a permanent magnet setup. It's about like going back to points. Backwards in my book but . . . .
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Old 11-25-2013, 01:12 PM   #7
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I've only seen the BMW set up on BMW's and Guzzis, I thought pretty much everyone uses permanent magnet charging systems....?
Isn't there one where they use a Ducati system in place of the BMW one?
I don't mind points though, can't say I'd bother with electronic on a BMW airhead road bike again after being let down in the snow in Germany by fecking Boyer pos in the early 90's. I sent it back with a grumpy letter and they sent me a new one.....never used it.
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Old 11-25-2013, 02:55 PM   #8
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from another recent charging thread .. but same factors apply
-------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by blaine.hale View Post
We should sticky some of this stuff for folks. _cy_ and warin are doing an awesome job here!
thanks .. post #8 is still in rough draft and evolving. will place final version in tips and tricks
been thinking of doing a tutorial on testing diode boards for sometime, because there's not a simple easy to follow one that I could find anywhere.

this thread was a good excuse to put it together.

switching topics ... high performance alternators for airheads basically involves two completely different systems.

electro-magnet alternator vs permanent magnet alternators which are found on almost all modern bikes. IMHO electro-magnet charging systems like Motorrad Electric and OEM Airhead alternators are more desirable.

almost ALL cars/trucks in the world use electro-magnet alternators if that says anything. permanent magnet alternators have advantage of putting full power at almost all rpm. but properly sized batteries has more than enough AH capacity to put up with no output for the limited times at idle.

permanent magnet charging systems regulate excess output by shunting excess voltage to ground. for example R1200GS puts out 720watt less overhead = 37 amps excess output that has go somewhere. which is shunted to ground by rectifier/regulator. this robs engine of power and heats up R/R and stator. which both can fail due to heat generated.

vs electro-magnet systems regulate output by changing voltage that electrifies rotor. an elegant solution that robs no power when not needed. otherwise trucks with 120amp alternators couldn't sustain heat of shunting excess amps to ground.

for example .. a 450 watt permanent magnet charging system less overhead would be needing to shunt about 29amps excess output to ground. this robs power from our already puny airhead HP.

then failure mode if R/R goes out ... 17v to 30v+ depending rpm gets dumped into your system... basically toasting your battery and no telling what else .. if you don't catch voltage is going haywire.

this is why EME states not to use their charging systems with LiFePO4 batteries as a precaution. actually it's fine to use with LiFePO4, just be aware of potential failure mode of R/R.
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Old 11-25-2013, 03:22 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltaire View Post
I've only seen the BMW set up on BMW's and Guzzis, I thought pretty much everyone uses permanent magnet charging systems....?
Isn't there one where they use a Ducati system in place of the BMW one?
I don't mind points though, can't say I'd bother with electronic on a BMW airhead road bike again after being let down in the snow in Germany by fecking Boyer pos in the early 90's. I sent it back with a grumpy letter and they sent me a new one.....never used it.
A lot of bikes do use permanent magnet setups but a lot doesn't. Most all of everything else doesn't.
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Old 11-25-2013, 03:40 PM   #10
blaine.hale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbmw View Post
Anybody sell this kit for less than $499?

http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/Pro...DL450%2DALTKIT


Thanks
Since no one is answering your question directly... No, no one sells it cheaper. I'm pretty sure euromoto does not have dealers, they just sell direct.

Btw, I have the enduro last and I have to agree with the others. Get the motoelek one. It's a super robust system, has incredible support and the wiring isn't hideous and cluttered. Also uses stock, existing parts that you can replace with the old ones, should something go bad.
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Old 11-25-2013, 03:50 PM   #11
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What about the enduralast 2? It uses the bosch type alternator. Its only 50 watts less, and $200-$275 less.
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Old 11-25-2013, 04:21 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRanger331 View Post
What about the enduralast 2? It uses the bosch type alternator. Its only 50 watts less, and $200-$275 less.
IMO...that looks like a good upgrade. Cheaper than the Omega kit, and sticks with the stock system design.
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1970 R60/5
1981 R80G/S Renovation under way. For sale Spring '14
'91 Bill Holland Steel w/Dura Ace

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Old 11-25-2013, 05:18 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _cy_ View Post
permanent magnet charging systems regulate excess output by shunting excess voltage to ground. for example R1200GS puts out 720watt less overhead = 37 amps excess output that has go somewhere. which is shunted to ground by rectifier/regulator. this robs engine of power and heats up R/R and stator. which both can fail due to heat generated.

I don't think this approach and statement is correct. Having worked with SCR's (i.e. control Thyristors) they do not put out power continuously - only on demand. The term SCR stands for silicon controlled rectifier: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon...lled_rectifier. It is the word 'control' in SCR that applies to current control. Using the analogy of electrons acting as soldiers - when the road they are marching has the drawbridge raised, they don't march off into the river - flow stops when the switch is disconnected.

I have not looked into the BMW R1200 GS permanent magnet charging system, but can say it was designed by competent engineers. Only an incompetent designer would not use the off feature of SCR's to reduce current output. If 100% alternator current output was continuous, a power dissipation system (i.e. resistor(s) cooled by air) would be needed - these components would add expense, complexity, and weight.

The advantage of the permanent magnet alternator is the parasitic current required for the electromagnetic rotor is not needed. But the magnets need to be light weight and reasonably inexpensive. Plus, a control method - such as a SCR- is needed. Permanent magnet alternators are 'new technology' due to the (relatively recent) improved permanent magnets and solid state relays.
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Old 11-25-2013, 05:59 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRanger331 View Post
What about the enduralast 2? It uses the bosch type alternator. Its only 50 watts less, and $200-$275 less.
Great system. I upgraded the stock system to the Enduralast 2. I have a volt meter and with headlight, twin LED driving lights, and heated grips on high the voltage drops from 14.2 to 14.1 - can't ask for anything more. I could see no reason to spend the extra $275. You can run with the stock rotor if needed but because the stock rotor is a much smaller diameter than the upgrade, you will get very limited charging - maybe just enough to run the headlight.

Dave
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Old 11-25-2013, 06:41 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan_R80/7 View Post
I don't think this approach and statement is correct. Having worked with SCR's (i.e. control Thyristors) they do not put out power continuously - only on demand. The term SCR stands for silicon controlled rectifier: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon...lled_rectifier. It is the word 'control' in SCR that applies to current control. Using the analogy of electrons acting as soldiers - when the road they are marching has the drawbridge raised, they don't march off into the river - flow stops when the switch is disconnected.

I have not looked into the BMW R1200 GS permanent magnet charging system, but can say it was designed by competent engineers. Only an incompetent designer would not use the off feature of SCR's to reduce current output. If 100% alternator current output was continuous, a power dissipation system (i.e. resistor(s) cooled by air) would be needed - these components would add expense, complexity, and weight.

The advantage of the permanent magnet alternator is the parasitic current required for the electromagnetic rotor is not needed. But the magnets need to be light weight and reasonably inexpensive. Plus, a control method - such as a SCR- is needed. Permanent magnet alternators are 'new technology' due to the (relatively recent) improved permanent magnets and solid state relays.
sorry truly wish I was wrong ... OEM rectifier/regulator shunts excess voltage to ground. both MOSFET and SCR R/R shunts excess voltage to ground. unless R/R is a serial type .. there's a thread on Adv dealing with that exact topic.

for BMW F800 .. there's a known issue of R/R putting out voltage higher at idle than at full RPM. recommendation is to switch to MOSFET type R/R which still shunts excess voltage to ground. but voltage is corrected to 14.4v range at high rpm.
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