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Old 06-18-2013, 10:47 PM   #1
Head2Wind OP
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Laugh Cold air Dam-IT for CPR or SW filters

I'm always looking to tweak and improve the LC8 in ways that are real and can be felt through the seat of the pants when riding. The open foam filters available from several vendors coupled with correct jetting/maps are excellent for de-restricting the beast's intake of air/fuel.... however they introduce a challenge with the intake air. In almost all cases the IAT goes up, which in the world of current internal combustion engines as we know them, this is bad.... bad IAT! Icy cold air going into the engine (combined with the correct fuel mixture) makes for the best power that the engine can produce.... = more = good :). One of the challenges with the LC8 in the trellis frame and body work is the induction systems are sitting on top of the source of heat, as well as behind the source of rejecting the majority of this heat (aka the radiator)... icky, bad IAT. The best we can do is try to reduce the flow of this hot air up and around the intake/air filter... air flow will naturally find the lowest path of resistance, hence the "dam-it" foam blocks that I came up to help the poor IAT situation. This is definitely a work in progress, just proud to share the progress and looking for input.

Enjoy the pEakchUrz
Mounted up to the ongoing SE project (the genesis of the Dam-IT)

Standard Carb setup with open foam filter and custom base plate



The custom base, I twisted it in the frame and moved it as far forward as possible to reduce the amount of the seat pan that needs to be cut to clear the back of the filter assembly.


Foam Dam-IT in place around the carbs


Base plate back on


Open filter mounted up to the plate with the Dam-IT foam in place




Mounted up to the AdvSUPERmOdUKe 970 EFI







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Head2Wind screwed with this post 06-18-2013 at 11:04 PM
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Old 06-19-2013, 08:08 AM   #2
Two Moto Kiwis
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Great work

I also drilled 5 x 20 mm wholes along the base of the ECU backing plate and cut the top off the backing plate down to the top of the ECU.

With the safari tank on you have a perfect pair of ram air intakes on each side from the front allowing cleaner cooler air to come in, I also ditched the splashed guards to the shelf to increase flow past the voltage reg mounted on the LHS, again more air more cooling better life for the VR.
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Old 06-19-2013, 10:45 AM   #3
buzybraza
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I like the idea, but tell me about results. Did you feel any difference? Or did you dyno any difference?
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Old 06-19-2013, 10:59 AM   #4
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I have not done any instrumented testing of temperatures or power differences yet. I am on a very tight timeline to complete the SE project (done this Saturday AM) so I probably will not be able to do any seat of pants or dyno run comparisons.... I don't have a dyno (wish I did) and the closest one that I trust is a hour away.

I do have a dual probe digital temp meter that I will probably do some temperature comparisons to see if or how much the IAT change.

TahoeACR did some early dyno testing and focused on IAT improvements with is 990 ADV, based upon his work he was saying 1-2 hp improvement if not more and better drivability/throttle response.
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Old 06-19-2013, 11:09 AM   #5
buzybraza
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Talking

Thanks! I like it!
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Old 06-19-2013, 12:41 PM   #6
LocuL
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Great idea, i may do it my self. But my initial thought would be that it doesn´t mean anything when you ride. THen again...2hp...DO IT
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Old 06-27-2013, 06:18 PM   #7
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Not bad H2W. This is exactly the reason we do not use aluminum on our base plate as aluminum is great at soaking up heat and transferring it right into the carbs or throttle bodies. The Rottweiler Intake is the only one with no metal in it. In the beginning, we temperature tested many different materials. We even tried Lexan that was see through to see what was happening inside with stringers tied to the ribs to see flow characteristics. With a dual thermometer probe that comes on an aftermarket racing dash on our test SD that would record max and average temps, we found that the differences between the heavy and hot aluminum and our Super Tough Nylon were large enough to make the costly investment for an injection mold to do it right. The addition of your foam insert may make the system even cooler. Good on ya.
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Old 06-27-2013, 08:59 PM   #8
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Hey CPRFab,

Thanks for your input and insight. Aluminum is a great conductor for heat, but it can be mitigated by coating and/or insulating it with some form of a thermal barrier. As you stated, Nylon does a excellent job of this as well without any additional coatings or treatments.

My goal with this system of formed foam was not necessarily intended to address this issue of conduction through the base plate, independent of the material composition, but to address the issue of air flow in and around the air filter system where air is drawn into the filter. As described in my original post, the natural flow of air when the vehicle is in "normal" operation tends to increase the temperature of the air available for intake into the engine. This issue is increased by the fact that the OEM airbox is now gone. My intention is to provide a barrier to this flow of heated air, separating the upper (intake) from the lower (heated air from engine/rejection systems), which then should influence the air to flow to a path of lower resistance, which hopefully will then also allow the open forward area of this assembly to provide slightly above ambient (cool) air to the intake systems.

I am sure that you know, based upon your history and current activity in racing, it is well established that lower IAT can positively influence power output of the engine.

I have not done any temperature testing with my dual probe thermo couple digital meter yet, I am hoping that I will have time on Saturday to perform some real world tests and report on what I find.

As a side potential benefit it MAY also help with reducing the sound pressure reading from the intake noise, I don't have a DB meter so cant tell that one way or another.... probably very minimal considering the nature of the material etc....

I can say that based upon the jetting/tune to support the open foam filter system, it freaking RIPS! The bike has a full billet clutch, Meoni center hub mod, Rekluse EXP auto clutch and it will do awesome things for sure AND the sound it makes doing it makes it even more fun. Can't wait to do some more real world tests

I am really looking forward to spending more time with the 950 ADV EFI project and the CPR intake system on it to see what it can do as well, just need to get 3 more bikes done and gone off to their owner/riders.
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Old 06-27-2013, 09:33 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LocuL View Post
Great idea, i may do it my self. But my initial thought would be that it doesn´t mean anything when you ride. THen again...2hp...DO IT
For me its more than the potential for more power, however a ~2% increase in power aint too bad related to the cost of making the modification. Its also related to how well the engine will run, how resistant it is to detonation and therefore increasing the major service intervals for the engine. Detonation is a killer and it can be silent... not all detonation is audible above the noise of the engine, sometimes we can hear it as "pinging" in one of its mildest forms, but violent detonation can melt/blow off the tops of the ring lands and a bunch of other really nasty stuff if its not controlled. Years ago I had to rebuild my 390 AMX motor that I just built because I wasn't paying close enough attention to the total ignition advance and jetting for the conditions, was to late/lazy to change it before I roasted two of the pistons during a 1/4 run.

Temperature of Air and other ramblings:
Basically, "air" has a bunch of stuff in it but the one major thing that the engine and gasoline is interested in is Oxygen. Temperature plays a big role here because as the air temperature is increased, its density decreases (PV = nRT). Therefore, if the temperature of the ambient air is increased, the engine now must do more work in order to ingest the same amount of oxygen. Generally it cannot and therefore will produce less power as a result. Among many factors there are some other heady thermo dynamic stuff related to the temperature of the intake air in the cylinder and how much energy it takes to compress it, again cooler is better. So, again in general "for most modern internal combustion engines" (excluding some of the super nifty stuff like Smokey Yunick's Hot-Vapor cycle engine) as intake air temperatures increases this results in a loss of power.
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:06 AM   #10
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Your on the right track. I built a plate and put my favorite gold shield on it. Next step is to put a pressure sensor in there and see if we can get a little ram air effect. K2M built some wider scoops and gets enough pressure to lift the glove box door.

Also, cooler in, cooler out. Drop EGT's and you could get some benefits from the exhaust not heating the fuel tanks up as much. Hot fuel is less HP too. It's a viscous circle. Another thing I was going to test some day is fuel temps. Got a sensor but put it in my Husaberg instead. Fuel can boil at 125 degrees. Well, at least it can in a 70 degree Husaberg at 9,000' in Idaho. How much power do you think you would loose with that hot of fuel?
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Old 06-28-2013, 01:43 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tahoeacr View Post
Your on the right track. I built a plate and put my favorite gold shield on it. Next step is to put a pressure sensor in there and see if we can get a little ram air effect. K2M built some wider scoops and gets enough pressure to lift the glove box door.
I can't see how this is possible with an ITG type filter. Any additional pressure built up will escape through the filter.
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Old 06-28-2013, 06:48 AM   #12
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Im making a base plate for ITG filters and was planning to stick some heat shield material underneath of it regardless of the material of the plate. I have used MooseRacing heat shield that has great adhesive, on my stock airbox and inside of fuel tanks. It has survived two years of abuse.

Reading your post inspired me to make a little on board computer with bunch of air temperature, air presure, fuel temperature,... sensors to log data. I can make this happen with cheap open-source credit card size computers like Raspberry Pi or BeagleBone. Let me know if thats something you would be interested in.

Basically, one inserts an USB stick to the on board computer, goes for a ride then takes the USB stick off and into a laptop to the read data.
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