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Old 06-28-2013, 04:47 PM   #1
NJ-Brett OP
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bad crash at 4 way stop?

I was out riding last weekend, and on the way home, came to a crash a bit after it happened, at Jackson road and Atson road in South Jersey.

Horse farms all around, a good line of sight in every direction, 4 way stop sign and flashing red lights.
Two big Harleys were laying in the intersection with stuff all over the road, the ambulance was there, there were cars off to the side, I did not see any dented cars. One other Harley was on the side of the road.

So what happened here?
Its a 4 way stop, with signs and flashing lights, and both bikes were in the middle of the intersection, not off like they would be if they lost it in a turn, it looked like two bikes ran into each other at the intersection.
And fast enough to smash thing up well.

I can not figure out what happened, but figure someone was being really stupid to be able to crash badly at a 4 way stop.

You need to watch the other bikes as much as the texting car drivers...

I found this, 4 people in the hospital...

http://www.phillyburbs.com/my_town/m...73b47ecff.html
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Old 06-28-2013, 09:10 PM   #2
Bill Harris
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Mebbe they was playin' chicken...

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Old 06-28-2013, 09:13 PM   #3
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I read that article and I got more out or your post than what the news article says.
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Old 06-28-2013, 11:41 PM   #4
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Both bikes reach the stop at about the same time. Neither rider remembers the rule for who should proceed first. They wait for a bit, thinking that it's the other's turn. Now thoroughly annoyed, they both finally accelerate from the stop quickly and at the same time. Boom, crash...... At least that's how accidents like that seem to happen when cars are involved.
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Old 06-29-2013, 05:15 AM   #5
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They were jousting. They both unhorsed eachother, so the round was a draw.
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Old 06-29-2013, 05:28 AM   #6
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Not always, do both pirates walk away from a sword fight, unscathed, matey. arrrr
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Old 06-29-2013, 05:36 AM   #7
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Intersections are always a choice,do you trust to fate and just go through,the light IS green so it must be safe?

Or try to extend your life and health a little longer and go when it's safe?

Small children are very trusting of many things.
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Old 06-29-2013, 05:49 AM   #8
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Maybe they just didn't know how to handle an intersection without the help of a road captain and road guards.
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Old 06-29-2013, 06:55 AM   #9
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Or maybe the road captains and road guards had a willie-wagging contest over who had ROW at the intersection.

Endless possibilities.

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Old 06-29-2013, 07:15 AM   #10
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Wow, you fuckers are cold.
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Old 06-29-2013, 07:34 AM   #11
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What, no loud pipes didn't save them jokes? Does a loud pipe save you from someone else with a loud pipe? (Yeah yeah not all Harleys have loud pipes.)

Since we're all just speculating here, my guess is that all three Hardleys (including the one parked on the side) were all riding together. First guy slows and then goes through, third guy thinks they are doing it road captain style so he's just going to ride through without stopping and accelerates to catch up with the first guy, just as the second guy follows rules of the road and stops.

Third guy then rear ends second guy since he knows not to use the front brake. Of course if both bikes were smashed in the front, that shoots this theory all to hell.
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Old 06-29-2013, 07:49 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viverrid View Post
What, no loud pipes didn't save them jokes? Does a loud pipe save you from someone else with a loud pipe? (Yeah yeah not all Harleys have loud pipes.)

Since we're all just speculating here, my guess is that all three Hardleys (including the one parked on the side) were all riding together. First guy slows and then goes through, third guy thinks they are doing it road captain style so he's just going to ride through without stopping and accelerates to catch up with the first guy, just as the second guy follows rules of the road and stops.

Third guy then rear ends second guy since he knows not to use the front brake. Of course if both bikes were smashed in the front, that shoots this theory all to hell.
Possibly,

Or,

Two HD's were riding one direction, and the third was approaching the intersection perpindicularly. First HD in the group of two stops, then goes, and the second one does NOT stop trying to follow the first one through, and crashes into the third guy who thought it was safe to proceed.
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Old 06-29-2013, 07:49 AM   #13
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Since nobody but nobody ever remembers who has the legal right of way at intersections, I'm overly deferential when it comes to these situations-- I prefer the other guy make their move, then I will go when it's safe.

That said, often enough it gets into one of those "You go, no YOU go" standoffs that benefits no one.

So, here's a helpful intersection tip I discovered MANY years ago: if you come to a stopping standoff at an intersection and you want the other driver/rider to turn before you, do the quick wave, but THEN turn your head away to not look at them.

You could spend five minutes waving somebody on and they won't bother turning, but the moment you look away from them (bonus if you fiddle with your gloves/tank bag/etc.), they'll take the initiative and turn. Works 90% of the time IME.

Basic driving psychology: just as we riders should never assume that a driver looking left won't turn right, drivers all the time assume that if you're not looking at them, they're free to turn.

Another bonus: works great if you're a pedestrian, too. At a crosswalk if you want a car to turn before you walk, just give one wave, THEN turn to face the other direction.
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Old 06-29-2013, 08:31 AM   #14
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It's also possible that one of the riders just didn't see, and stop for the stop sign. I can't imagine it would have been a bad crash if they had all stopped and then somehow screwed up after the stop.
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Old 06-29-2013, 01:17 PM   #15
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4 people in the hospital, 3 were air lifted.
There was a LOT of crap in the road, so it was not just a 20 mph crash from the looks of it, yet the bikes did not go far, they were in the middle of the intersection.
Its got signs and flashing red lights, and the sight lines are good, you can see everything for 500 feet around at least.

Weird times, the weekend before, there was a car in a ditch and into the tree's just down the road, just BEFORE a gentle turn.
Off the road, into a ditch and tree and before the curve?
I can see texting and not seeing the curve and running off the road IN the curve, but before the curve?

Some sort of high karma zone or something...
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