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Old 07-02-2013, 11:53 AM   #16
81cr450
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It'll be neat to see how there injecting the oil on the new direct injected bikes, unless of course you though it went in with the gas

I think the way to go about retro-ing the injector pump would be just to use one of the older bike ones off of the same size of motor, or possibly something off of an outboard of equivilant cc. The whole reason I asked about pump failures.
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Old 07-02-2013, 01:08 PM   #17
crg infidel OP
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I think the problem with using a stock Auto-lube type pump is the drive. Don't they typically run off of a worm gear inside the case? I think that would be damn near impossible to fabricate into an engine that never ran a pump.

That was why I was thinking more towards an electrically driven external pump. But.....if an old Auto-lube pump could be powered by a motor, that could work!

Or.......I could just mix the gas! But, where's the fun in that?
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Old 07-02-2013, 04:43 PM   #18
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Another blithering fool pissing into the wind. You're English aren't you? [ private joke ]
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Old 07-02-2013, 05:21 PM   #19
81cr450
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I'm working with what will be a KX560 so a big pump is what I'd be after , like a 650 / 750 pump , I believe you can adjust the flow. I'd probably look at running it of the stator side of the bike. A hand fabbed ignition cover wouldnt be to bad to attach an oil pump to.

This pump here, 900cc I know but best pics, drives off of a simple flat drive " if " I'm looking at it right. Thats just what I found after a couple minutes on ebay. I really think using an existing pump would simpler & already calibrated for progressive flow like 200:1 trials bike mix down low to 20:1 top-end machine up in the RPM's.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/KAWASAKI-PJS...e8d9ad&vxp=mtr

If you were doing an aluminum frame conversion like a service honda , you could use the aluminum frame as your oil tank, the wide spars are being used by some as extra fuel capacity.

I know I think to much, but I really feel adding this to an EFI bike would be quite suprising on how clean it would run. Its like when you ride a big bore slow & the low RPM vacuum doesnt evacuate the oil it just keeps loading up without enough draw to keep it moving through because you have to mix your oil ratio safe for those " clean out" top end blasts
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Old 07-02-2013, 05:39 PM   #20
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The better pump setup would actually use a banshee type throttle so you have one cable running to the carb & one to the pump like this pump has

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Snowmobile-O...a867fd&vxp=mtr

This has more ratio range than the first pump due to the load adjustment, i would assume anyway
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Old 07-02-2013, 05:45 PM   #21
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This pump here, 900cc I know but best pics, drives off of a simple flat drive " if " I'm looking at it right.
That's pretty interesting! Does it run directly off of the crank, or is it geared down?
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Old 07-02-2013, 07:18 PM   #22
81cr450
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Oem parts fische looks like its right off the crank end

http://www.kawasakiparts1st.com/oemp...c644/crankcase

http://www.kawasakiparts1st.com/oemp...8c649/oil-pump
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Old 07-03-2013, 05:21 AM   #23
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If ya really wanna do this right the stock pumps run off two parameters,engine speed and throttle opening.
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Old 07-03-2013, 07:52 AM   #24
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If ya really wanna do this right the stock pumps run off two parameters,engine speed and throttle opening.
That's a good point. That must be how it is regulated via load instead of just RPM. The plot thickens!

So if the oil ratio varies with load, and if using premix you have to cover the full range with a single ratio, then anything under wide open throttle is getting excess oil. Is that correct, or am I mistaken?

So, knowing that the pump is regulated with throttle also, maybe it would be best to just use an actual Auto-Lube pump (and throttle cable) for this idea. That seems more feasible, anyhow!
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Old 07-03-2013, 08:40 PM   #25
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If you look at the one I posted^^^

Quote:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Snowmobile-O...a867fd&vxp=mtr

This has more ratio range than the first pump due to the load adjustment, i would assume anyway
& yes your mix of say 32:1 is to be safe at WFO, where like a low RPM trials bike run alot less premix
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Old 07-04-2013, 07:33 AM   #26
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What kind of dumb ass can't figure out 4 OZs. per gallon?
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Old 07-04-2013, 08:04 AM   #27
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This whole thing sounds like a good way to seize a motor.
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Originally Posted by joexr View Post
Another blithering fool pissing into the wind. You're English aren't you? [ private joke ]
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What kind of dumb ass can't figure out 4 OZs. per gallon?
Although your comments are thoroughly entertaining for us all, I'm afraid you may be missing the point.

We're all aware that mixing gas works.

Of course it's a risk to try something different, but some people like that kind of thing.

Claiming that it can never work, interspersed with insults, adds nothing to the conversation.

That said, you may very well be right. It may never work. I may seize an engine in the process. I don't doubt your knowledge or intelligence, but I don't understand your need to piss on something that holds no interest for you.

If I destroy an engine while "pissing in the wind", I'll mail you a crisp $5 bill and a letter stating that you are right and I am dumb.

How's that?
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Old 07-04-2013, 08:10 AM   #28
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You think you're reinventing the wheel or something?I think you're clueless. I'm just being logically realistic. OK . I apologize , dream on.

joexr screwed with this post 07-04-2013 at 08:25 AM
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Old 07-04-2013, 10:50 AM   #29
81cr450
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I think you're clueless.
That about sums it up for you joexr

It really make's me think of my old 1974 dt250 & just dumping oil in & going. I never really thought about does the pump work. The points on it were a PITA though.
The pumps on 2 stroke motorcycle's, jetski's ,or snowmobile's are there to make them more idiot proof. Less plug fouling so they are enjoyable to ride for someone who doesnt just run WFO keeping it blown out. Why would the manufacturers waste so many "millions" on a device that doesnt provide anything better than

Quote:
What kind of dumb ass can't figure out 4 OZs. per gallon?
Personally I'm gonna vote Japanese engineers over , some ignorant 4-poker on the web.

I think that it's not really a performance adder so mainstream tinkerer's wouldnt mess with something that doesnt add hp. The view of making it run "better" throughout the powerband, particularly down low for when you get in miles of trials bike type terrain is the where the real added benefit would come in.

81cr450 screwed with this post 07-04-2013 at 11:02 AM
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Old 07-04-2013, 11:32 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by 81cr450 View Post
Why would the manufacturers waste so many "millions" on a device that doesnt provide anything better than



Personally I'm gonna vote Japanese engineers over , some ignorant 4-poker on the web.
MILLIONS were spent to design oil injection systems by QUALIFIED ENGINEERS. Need I say more?
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