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Old 11-07-2013, 04:40 PM   #301
BobM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRTBYK View Post
The Monterra has a Projected Capacitive Touch Display, like your smartphone. If you want it to be "glove-friendly" you will have to mode your gloves or use gloves designed for Capacitive Touch displays. ....
You said you can't comment on your experience with the Monterra until it's released, so I'm hoping this comment is NOT a quote from Garmin's released spec's.

I'm ready to buy one but I'll serious have to rethink it if I need special gloves. I live in Canada and ride in ON and AZ and have many gloves to cover the different conditions I encounter. I get really frustrated when I ride without my "real" camera and try the take a quick picture with my HTC phone (why? you can't without removing your gloves, even thin MX type).

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Old 11-07-2013, 04:51 PM   #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobM View Post
You said you can't comment on your experience with the Monterra until it's released, so I'm hoping this comment is NOT a quote from Garmin's released spec's.

I'm ready to buy one but I'll serious have to rethink it if I need special gloves. I live in Canada and ride in ON and AZ and have many gloves to cover the different conditions I encounter. I get really frustrated when I ride without my "real" camera and try the take a quick picture with my HTC phone (why? you can't without removing your gloves, even thin MX type).

?

Bob
Info I read from EU reviewers with PR units. I too was frustrated every time I needed to use my iPhone when I got off the bike and had to remove my gloves. Sooooo, I started using AnyGlove for Leather on my KLIM AdvPro gloves and my BMW Winter and Atlantis-III gloves. It works very well and you don't need to cover the whole finger/thumb, just the tips. I've still got enough left in the little 15ml bottle to do all my gloves once more after six months of riding use.

P.S, you do need to reapply every couple of weeks depending upon how hard you are on the finger tips. I keep a bottle on each bike -- it's that important to me.
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Old 11-07-2013, 04:57 PM   #303
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my experience with the Montana is that it's very glove friendly
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Old 11-07-2013, 05:01 PM   #304
DRTBYK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAZR View Post
my experience with the Montana is that it's very glove friendly
Resistive Touch Digitizer vs. Projected Capacitive Touch screens. Glass front vs. plastic on your Montana.

Resistive Touch Digitizer is looking for a mechanical connection. PCAP is looking for the electrical capacitance equivalent to your skin.
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Old 11-07-2013, 08:16 PM   #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobM View Post
I'm ready to buy one but I'll serious have to rethink it if I need special gloves. I live in Canada and ride in ON and AZ and have many gloves to cover the different conditions I encounter. I get really frustrated when I ride without my "real" camera and try the take a quick picture with my HTC phone (why? you can't without removing your gloves, even thin MX type).
Making A Glove Work With A Touch Screen

I think I'll take the (slight) inconvenience of this over having to use a resistive touch screen.
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Old 11-07-2013, 08:39 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by EmmEff View Post
Making A Glove Work With A Touch Screen

I think I'll take the (slight) inconvenience of this over having to use a resistive touch screen.
The only down side to silver thread is rain gloves.
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Old 11-07-2013, 09:03 PM   #307
BobM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRTBYK View Post
.... I started using AnyGlove for Leather on my .... gloves ...... you do need to reapply every couple of weeks depending upon how hard you are on the finger tips. I keep a bottle on each bike ......
Thanks for the info. I'm really going to rely on your review to include a section about using "standard" m/c gloves and your modified gloves.

I'm still "old school" and think motorcycle GPS MUST have buttons. I really prefer the usability of my 60CSx together with features of my Montana. In the 40,000 or so Km's I've been using the Montana, I've never had a single ride where I haven't been frustrated by it's touch screen, and it's TOO glove-friendly. I find the difference between a touch and a swipe is too small for my type of riding, and it takes numerous dabs to get back to the Map from Main or to use a function on the Main screen. The icon just moves rather than executing. When I'm sitting at the kitchen table, the touch screen is first rate, with or without any of my gloves.

Not sure I want to put up with an even less friendly touch screen - BUT my Montana sold yesterday

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Old 11-07-2013, 09:50 PM   #308
BobM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRTBYK View Post
Resistive Touch Digitizer vs. Projected Capacitive Touch screens. Glass front vs. plastic on your Montana.

Resistive Touch Digitizer is looking for a mechanical connection. PCAP is looking for the electrical capacitance equivalent to your skin.
I just Googled some of these terms and find this interesting comment:
Quote:
A fourth, less common type, occasionally used on rugged commercial tablets, but hardly ever on consumer devices, is an electronic digitizer which is actually layered behind the LCD. Like a capacitive panel, it projects an electric field that actually goes through the LCD. A stylus with a passive coil of wire or a stylus with a battery powered coil inside interacts with the electric field to position the cursor. The advantage of a digitizer is that a clear glass front can be put in front of the LCD thus allowing 100% of the LCD light to be visible. The disadvantage is that if the stylus is lost, the touch function is lost...[/url]
Are you sure the Monterra uses this type, which seems to need a stylus.

The following type certainly sounds like the Montana:
Quote:
Projected capacitive (PCAP) panels are made of two layers of glass (usually) sandwiching a plastic film that has rows and columns of ITO coating. Voltage gradients are applied and create an electric field that projects above the top layer of glass. When a conductive object comes into the field it absorbs electrons and changes the electric field’s characteristics (a disturbance in the force) and touch location is decoded. These screens differ from single layer capacitive in that there is no physical contact between the conductive pointing item and the ITO sandwiched between the glass layers, only the electric field disruption is necessary. Thus, PCAP panels can be “tuned” to work with gloved fingers at the expense of accuracy to an ungloved finger. It is a quickly evolving technology and becoming more popular on all devices. Depending on construction details, capacitive panels transmit 82-90% of the LCD’s light. ...[/url]
I'm not liking where this is going, especially as the Montana seems to be the only handheld that Garmin describe as "glove friendly" touch screen. The Monterra description of "multi-touch" is hard to interpret. The Oregon is merely "touch screen" - is it glove firendy?

@EmmEff - you have an Oregon on your bike, is it OK?

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Old 11-07-2013, 10:50 PM   #309
DRTBYK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobM View Post
.....

I'm not liking where this is going, especially as the Montana seems to be the only handheld that Garmin describe as "glove friendly" touch screen. The Monterra description of "multi-touch" is hard to interpret. The Oregon is merely "touch screen" - is it glove firendy?

@EmmEff - you have an Oregon on your bike, is it OK?

Bob
No interpretation necessary, it is as I described. If you had a hard time with the Montana, you aren't going to find it any better with the Monterra. The Oregon 600/650 are Capacitive Touch screens. You must use a glove the is appropriately treated: silver thread or chemical. ICON makes some gloves that are made with a specially treated leather and they work very well.

Do you have a modern smartphone? That is the type of display the Monterra has. Multi-touch just means the display can detect whether there are two points of contact on the screen or just one and if the contact points are moving linear or rotating.

You might want to stop by someplace and play with this type of display. If they aren't to your liking, the new BMW Navigator-V has a four button mount that might suit you better if the smaller Garmins with buttons aren't right either.

Not trying to talk you out of the Monterra, just throwing out options.
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Old 11-08-2013, 12:44 AM   #310
BobM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRTBYK View Post
.... Do you have a modern smartphone? That is the type of display the Monterra has. Multi-touch just means the display can detect whether there are two points of contact on the screen or just one and if the contact points are moving linear or rotating. ....
My smartphone is a HTC Sensation which launched about 2 years ago. It absolutely will not work with gloves on, so that sounds like the Monterra is a non-starter for me.

Wish I'd known this before I sold my Montana yesterday.

I really appreciate your honest input on this - think you saved me a huge disappointment. I was assuming the Monterra had to have the same screen as the Montana, but it obviously needs the phone-type multi-touch screen to use the Android OS features.

Thanks again.
Bob
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Old 11-08-2013, 05:29 AM   #311
Cataract2
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Certainly will be waiting to hear what people report with regards to the screen and gloves.
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Old 11-08-2013, 05:49 AM   #312
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Originally Posted by Cataract2 View Post
Certainly will be waiting to hear what people report with regards to the screen and gloves.
I don't own any special gloves so I'm struggling to use the Monterra now that I need thick winter gloves. I had no problem with regular summer gloves.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
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Old 11-08-2013, 07:54 AM   #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmbeedee View Post
I don't own any special gloves so I'm struggling to use the Monterra now that I need thick winter gloves. I had no problem with regular summer gloves.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
Bummer.

It shows Garmin did not design the Monterra for motorcyclists. Which is no surprise, as it is on their "handheld" offerings. But even for those people who use hand held devices, when in winter they wear gloves. If they have to remove their gloves for every operation of the Monterra, it becomes cumbersome, and in most cases, they may as well use what they all already have: their smart phones. It makes me think the Monterra is only an exercise in design. An expensive dead end at its price.
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Old 11-08-2013, 09:33 AM   #314
StuInFH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRTBYK View Post
The Monterra has a Projected Capacitive Touch Display, like your smartphone. If you want it to be "glove-friendly" you will have to mode your gloves or use gloves designed for Capacitive Touch displays.
I freaked too when I read this (cuz returned Montana months ago and have Monterra ordered), ran to check specs in disbelief. But your explanation of advantages (simply glass over plastic screen is enough for me) sounds good.

I read where a ski-patrol guy applied Graphite-Filled Conductive Wire Glue (from Radio Shack) to his glove tips and "had great success." Anyone have experience with this? If I can find something that is more durable than applying/reapplying a solution (and carrying it along) or sewing conductive thread (thru waterproof gloves?), that would be great.

thanks
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Old 11-08-2013, 10:01 AM   #315
DRTBYK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobM View Post
My smartphone is a HTC Sensation which launched about 2 years ago. It absolutely will not work with gloves on, so that sounds like the Monterra is a non-starter for me.

Wish I'd known this before I sold my Montana yesterday.

I really appreciate your honest input on this - think you saved me a huge disappointment. I was assuming the Monterra had to have the same screen as the Montana, but it obviously needs the phone-type multi-touch screen to use the Android OS features.

Thanks again.
Bob
As I will outline in my Review, using gloves, properly treated for PCAP displays, is little different than using gloves with a Resistive Touch (Montana-like) display. BUT, because of the Android OS, Icons on the screen tend to be smaller than what you were use to with the Montana.

So, again, if you found the Montana frustrating, the Monterra might be more so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion BR View Post
Bummer.

It shows Garmin did not design the Monterra for motorcyclists. Which is no surprise, as it is on their "handheld" offerings. But even for those people who use hand held devices, when in winter they wear gloves. If they have to remove their gloves for every operation of the Monterra, it becomes cumbersome, and in most cases, they may as well use what they all already have: their smart phones. It makes me think the Monterra is only an exercise in design. An expensive dead end at its price.
The Monterra's target market are outdoor professionals. They are use to working in all-weather conditions -- their smartphone isn't and doesn't have, in most cases, the "GPS" related software or hardware.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuInFH View Post
I freaked too when I read this (cuz returned Montana months ago and have Monterra ordered), ran to check specs in disbelief. But your explanation of advantages (simply glass over plastic screen is enough for me) sounds good.

I read where a ski-patrol guy applied Graphite-Filled Conductive Wire Glue (from Radio Shack) to his glove tips and "had great success." Anyone have experience with this? If I can find something that is more durable than applying/reapplying a solution (and carrying it along) or sewing conductive thread (thru waterproof gloves?), that would be great.

thanks
As noted in several of the PR Unit reviews on the internet, the Monterra has a "Glove Mode" which, if you read up on PCAP displays, cranks up the sensitivity of the display so it may work OK with thin leather or textile gloves. But, if you do use the proper glove "treatment" or purchase gloves made for PCAP displays you should have the same touch experience as you did with the Montana.

AnyGlove for Leather has graphite in it and it remains flexible and on a black glove just disappears mostly. I believe I posted a picture in another thread quite some time ago of this stuff on my gloves. I see if I can find it.

These are my KLIM Adv Pro's and I learned that I didn't need to use quite so much finger/thumb coverage to be effective.



These are BMW Atlantis-III Goretex gloves and even with the external seams they work OK if you make sure to use the tip of the finger or thumb.


My "technique" for using any touch screen device on the bike while moving is as follows:

I reach out for the device like I'm going to hold it in my hand - but I don't wrap my hand around back, just my finger tips. This allows my hand to steady the device and the device to steady my hand. Then I use my Thumb-tip to activate the screen. YMMV
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DRTBYK screwed with this post 11-08-2013 at 12:19 PM
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