ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > The perfect line and other riding myths
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-12-2013, 09:07 PM   #1
fixie OP
don't lie to me, man!
 
fixie's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: PDX, OR
Oddometer: 72
Question Help me get faster when two-up on gravel!

Im not aiming to be a hooligan when I my trusty pillion is along for the ride, Id just like to be able to corner a bit faster. On many corners I'm at 15mph or below! Sure, this is appropriate for many situations, but I think I should be able to take many of these corners a bit faster since I could double my speed if I were solo.

I feel confident on hardpack, even a bit of gravel/rocks on hardpack I can deal with. But Im very cautious on deep or deepish gravel. On some turns I can feel the front tire *just* start to feel funny but Ive never taken it further so I dont know if it is the "wobbly in sand sort - just trust it and don't death grip" sort of funny or Im going to break loose and dump you kind of funny.

When solo I'm standing and I know to weight the outside peg, and I do that a bit when two-up, but Im sitting so it isnt totally effective. Currently riding Tourances (aired down to 27ish in front, 35 in rear) but when theyre done Im putting on something a bit more dirt friendly.

I recognize there are many types of gravel roads but Im hoping your tutelage will apply across the board!

Facts, in case theyre relevant
- 1150 GS
- Im 185#, shes 115#. Sometimes an extra 50# for luggage

Hardpack like this is okay:


When the road is as deep (all the way across) like it is in the middle here, I'm a nervous nelly:


So, how can I improve? What should I experiment with?

Thanks a bunch!
fixie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2013, 09:25 PM   #2
dirtdiver
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Oddometer: 1,984
What kind of a front tire are you running? That would make a big difference. If it is not a knobby of sort I would go dead slow like you already are doing.

When they say weight the outside peg what they really mean is shift your butt so that your butt crack is on the outer seam of the seat. Throw your inner leg out front towards the front tire hub.

They say you can practice by driving at slow speed in a 20ft circle in first gear going 5-10 then 15mph. Trying to get a feel for when the back lets loose or the front washes out. There will be some sliding out to the side and low siding the bike.

Personally I only try the above with my smaller dirt bike, the 990 is just too heavy and expensive to drop in the dirt for practice. The the lesson will transfer to your bigger bike riding though.

Dont crash with your wife on the back. Not worth going a bit faster!

DD
__________________
04 CRF230F
08 KTM990 ADV/ABS Black
09 KTM 530 EXC
dirtdiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2013, 09:28 PM   #3
dirtdiver
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Oddometer: 1,984
Also a steering stabilizer will help with the deep sand/gravel. Also putting your weight further back and give more gas.

Everyone hates deep sand. It does get easier with practice though.

knobbies help too.

DD
__________________
04 CRF230F
08 KTM990 ADV/ABS Black
09 KTM 530 EXC
dirtdiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2013, 09:28 PM   #4
fixie OP
don't lie to me, man!
 
fixie's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: PDX, OR
Oddometer: 72
DD - I hear ya about not crashing with the lady. We've had one 0 mpg get off and, while she was 100% cool with it, I felt like a douche!

Maybe we'll practice going in circles two-up on some grass.

Thanks!
fixie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2013, 09:30 PM   #5
tbarstow
Two-wheelin' Fool
 
tbarstow's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Viva Lost Wages!
Oddometer: 3,086
Sounds like you need to spend a day out practicing before your next trip. Try a set of Kenda Big Blocks for better traction off road.

Not crashing is still faster than crashing at 30mph because you "feel" to slow.
tbarstow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2013, 09:34 PM   #6
tbarstow
Two-wheelin' Fool
 
tbarstow's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Viva Lost Wages!
Oddometer: 3,086
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtdiver View Post
Also a steering stabilizer will help with the deep sand/gravel.
A GS doesn't need a steering stabilizer. It has 500 pounds on the front wheel.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtdiver View Post
Everyone hates deep sand. It does get easier with practice though.

Deep sand is FUN! Even on a GS.

But it helps that I'm nuts too.
tbarstow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 11:03 AM   #7
Pantah
Red Sox Nation
 
Pantah's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: India Wharf
Oddometer: 10,037
Tourance is a street tire. It sucks in gravel like every other street tire sucks in gravel. Even a TKC 80 DOT knobby isn't great, but it's a lot better than you are running now.
__________________
Straight ahead and faster -Bo Weaver 1970
"There I was..." -Griffin Niner Three Hotel
"One day closer to a parade..." Jonny Gomes, spring training 2013
Pantah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 12:03 PM   #8
Full Power
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2006
Location: Homer, Alaska
Oddometer: 1,421
Try a set of TKC80, maybe 24 or 25 PSI front, not much more in back.
Then take a quick ride up to Deadhorse,AK
By the time you are back burning Premium Fuel, your gravel riding will be well tuned.
__________________
Warm enough to RAIN is warm enough to RIDE.
Full Power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 12:14 PM   #9
fixie OP
don't lie to me, man!
 
fixie's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: PDX, OR
Oddometer: 72
That sounds like a great plan!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Full Power View Post
Try a set of TKC80, maybe 24 or 25 PSI front, not much more in back.
Then take a quick ride up to Deadhorse,AK
By the time you are back burning Premium Fuel, your gravel riding will be well tuned.
fixie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 12:53 PM   #10
VEGASGSA
Need more Summer
 
VEGASGSA's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: The Northwet..
Oddometer: 6,654
tires..have nearly fuck all to do with it..they only improve good technique..or mask bad..

you both need to learn to counter balance to the outside of the bike..as the bike leans in..then as speeds increase, you will shift your body(s) in, while the bike stays more upright..basic off road techniques..lead with your elbows..!!!! At slow speeds..you are leaning out..bike leaned in..in left turn..your right elbow should point the way..this pulls your body forward to weight the front..as speeds increase..the bike stays more upright..you lean your body IN and lead with left elbow..again, planting front tire..pillion works with you..match your shoulders..

trying to buy "stuff" to cover up poor technique does not help except letting you crash faster..

YMMV my $.02...n all that..

As taught by Coach Ramey Stroud..Dakar Vetran..

EDIT..remember too, on gravel..goin' is easy..slowing or stopping much tougher..keep that in mind..if you can't pitch it in and power thru..don't get goin 60 down the road and think you'll stop or slow by that corner right there..you won't..
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
You are not half as ugly as I thought you would be!
VEGASGSA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 12:54 PM   #11
VEGASGSA
Need more Summer
 
VEGASGSA's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: The Northwet..
Oddometer: 6,654
Quote:
Originally Posted by Full Power View Post
Try a set of TKC80, maybe 24 or 25 PSI front, not much more in back.
Then take a quick ride up to Deadhorse,AK
By the time you are back burning Premium Fuel, your gravel riding will be well tuned.
..
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
You are not half as ugly as I thought you would be!
VEGASGSA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 01:11 PM   #12
fixie OP
don't lie to me, man!
 
fixie's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: PDX, OR
Oddometer: 72
Thanks, VEGASGSA.

I do want to get some formal instruction. Couldn't find any info on Stroud's website for upcoming classes. Maybe I'll have to go down to Jimmy Lewis in October!

Most of what you wrote makes good sense, except for the bike being more upright when going faster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VEGASGSA View Post
tires..have nearly fuck all to do with it..they only improve good technique..or mask bad..

you both need to learn to counter balance to the outside of the bike..as the bike leans in..then as speeds increase, you will shift your body(s) in, while the bike stays more upright..basic off road techniques..lead with your elbows..!!!! At slow speeds..you are leaning out..bike leaned in..in left turn..your right elbow should point the way..this pulls your body forward to weight the front..as speeds increase..the bike stays more upright..you lean your body IN and lead with left elbow..again, planting front tire..pillion works with you..match your shoulders..

trying to buy "stuff" to cover up poor technique does not help except letting you crash faster..

YMMV my $.02...n all that..

As taught by Coach Ramey Stroud..Dakar Vetran..

EDIT..remember too, on gravel..goin' is easy..slowing or stopping much tougher..keep that in mind..if you can't pitch it in and power thru..don't get goin 60 down the road and think you'll stop or slow by that corner right there..you won't..
fixie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 01:23 PM   #13
FirstPath
Beastly Adventurer
 
FirstPath's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Formerly Shoreview, MN
Oddometer: 2,087
I took a dirt riding class just over a week ago and it was very informative. Idea of driving your weight downward thru the pegs was interesting. Just making the bike move left and right this way was quite challenging and I'm starting to get the hang of it. We did turns with weighting the outside pegs and inside pegs. The outside peg weighting we did while standing.

Everything was slow speed and it only increased a bit thru the afternoon. Practice the concepts and go slow. I have a long way to go to feel comfortable chucking it into a corner. Running stock TrailWings on the DR650 doesn't help either.
__________________
Scott
'12 DR650
FirstPath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 01:26 PM   #14
corndog67
Banned
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Santa Maria, CA
Oddometer: 1,281
Can you imagine your old lady sliding, cartwheeling, bouncing down the road? Or old man, I'm not judging you or anything. Slow with someone on the back. If you arent highly skilled, you have no business trying to go fast with someone on the back. Even if you are highly skilled, you are putting someone else's life at risk. I'll risk my own ass (all the time), but not my wife's'.
corndog67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 01:29 PM   #15
VEGASGSA
Need more Summer
 
VEGASGSA's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: The Northwet..
Oddometer: 6,654
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixie View Post
Thanks, VEGASGSA.

I do want to get some formal instruction. Couldn't find any info on Stroud's website for upcoming classes. Maybe I'll have to go down to Jimmy Lewis in October!

Most of what you wrote makes good sense, except for the bike being more upright when going faster.

Don't think vertical..just the best part of the tire on the ground..going quickly..you don't want to be leaned over..there is no friction (traction) on the road surface to hold you there..it will still be leaned some..



Notice the elbow..this is on turn exit..so getting back up over bike to straighten out.

Slower speed corner ELBOWS!!


Higher speed corner ELBOWS!!
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
You are not half as ugly as I thought you would be!
VEGASGSA is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 12:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014