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Old 07-14-2013, 10:50 PM   #241
the_sandman_454
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Originally Posted by stevie88 View Post
That $6B subsidy in 2011 was a tax credit to the blenders, i.e. oil companies. The result of that was cheaper fuel costs to the taxpayer by a roughly equivalent amount. That of course has since expired. Fortunately consumers primary benefit of ethanol is in increasing the country's motor fuel supply 10%. This is huge in helping reduce fuel costs.
We could have also reduced taxpayer fuel costs by using that $6B to cut fuel taxes an equivalent amount, all without reducing the energy content of our fuel. Remember less energy per gallon means you must burn more fuel by volume to produce the same power. While the fuel supply may be increased by 10%, fuel economy on E10 is reduced, so your 10% extra fuel may only be in reality 3%, 5%, or some other figure less than 10%.

The result of E10 fuel is that people need to purchase more fuel, which negatively impacts said people because the per gallon fuel taxes haven't gone down. Right? If I have to buy an extra gallon of fuel to get through the week, that is a gallon worth of extra taxes I had to pay that week. I've lost money on that deal.

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Again I ask you to show me where this magical free market in motor fuel exists. You ignore that because you know it doesn't exist and that fact negates all your Randian bs.
.

It doesn't exist because the government made it not exist. The government does this through regulation, taxation, and other means available to it such as manipulating currency.

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The crayons you scribble with contain corn. Google is your friend here if you want to learn something.
Corn can be a useful raw material for things other than food. My point is that the government should not be mandating its' use for anything. If the product is really as good as the hype, companies will produce it without a government mandate because people will buy it without a government mandate or subsidies. (Like green energy, solar, wind, etc. If they were that good, the .gov wouldn't need to be giving subsidies to try to coax people and companies into installing them, they would do so because the products stand on their own).

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That last question was a legit question. When was the last time an oil company fought to defend the country rather than the other way around?
I would love to see the US military go to war without the oil companies. Without available large scale amounts of fuel to power ships, tanks, planes, helicopters, trucks, HMMWVs, MRAPs, and other such devices are pretty useless to try fighting a war with. I guess they could all revert to charging into battle on horses.

I doubt the US military would have been much use in WWII for example without oil companies.

Biofuels are starting to come about, but in terms of production, the current technology just is not efficient enough yet. They may get there if necessity drives them to it.
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the_sandman_454 screwed with this post 07-14-2013 at 10:56 PM
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Old 07-15-2013, 03:22 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by stevie88 View Post
No, it's not at all. If I've made millions or zero dollars has absolutely no bearing on the fact that ethanol has lowered fuel prices and helped reduce our CO2 footprint.
Nice attempt at a dodge which pretty much proves that you are profiting from this industry, which also explains why so much of your "information" comes in the form of propaganda published by the same industry.
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Old 07-15-2013, 06:17 AM   #243
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Nice attempt at a dodge which pretty much proves that you are profiting from this industry, which also explains why so much of your "information" comes in the form of propaganda published by the same industry.
Now you're just being silly concerning my income. The same question could be asked of your "information" which can be traced back to studies paid for by oil interests and rightwing think tanks. Right wing think tanks, now there's a contradiction in terms. Ethanol industry's information is propaganda in your closed mind even though it contains many university studies as well as government research from numerous agencies and they are very clear and transparent in the methodology used.
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stevie88 screwed with this post 07-15-2013 at 06:23 AM
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Old 07-15-2013, 06:21 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by the_sandman_454 View Post
We could have also reduced taxpayer fuel costs by using that $6B to cut fuel taxes an equivalent amount, all without reducing the energy content of our fuel. Remember less energy per gallon means you must burn more fuel by volume to produce the same power. While the fuel supply may be increased by 10%, fuel economy on E10 is reduced, so your 10% extra fuel may only be in reality 3%, 5%, or some other figure less than 10%.

The result of E10 fuel is that people need to purchase more fuel, which negatively impacts said people because the per gallon fuel taxes haven't gone down. Right? If I have to buy an extra gallon of fuel to get through the week, that is a gallon worth of extra taxes I had to pay that week. I've lost money on that deal.

.

It doesn't exist because the government made it not exist. The government does this through regulation, taxation, and other means available to it such as manipulating currency.



Corn can be a useful raw material for things other than food. My point is that the government should not be mandating its' use for anything. If the product is really as good as the hype, companies will produce it without a government mandate because people will buy it without a government mandate or subsidies. (Like green energy, solar, wind, etc. If they were that good, the .gov wouldn't need to be giving subsidies to try to coax people and companies into installing them, they would do so because the products stand on their own).



I would love to see the US military go to war without the oil companies. Without available large scale amounts of fuel to power ships, tanks, planes, helicopters, trucks, HMMWVs, MRAPs, and other such devices are pretty useless to try fighting a war with. I guess they could all revert to charging into battle on horses.

I doubt the US military would have been much use in WWII for example without oil companies.

Biofuels are starting to come about, but in terms of production, the current technology just is not efficient enough yet. They may get there if necessity drives them to it.

Wow, just wow. Just one question. You do understand that monopolies can exist regardless of governmental action and in fact it's the failure to properly enforce antitrust laws that is the problem?
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Old 07-15-2013, 06:25 AM   #245
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The ultimate outcome of capitalism is slavery. What do antitrust and warring farmers have to do with the fact the ethanol is crap?



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Old 07-15-2013, 06:34 AM   #246
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I say we have bumper stickers made up. PROTEST ETHANOL / BOYCOTT CORN We'll vote with our wallets.
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Old 07-15-2013, 06:34 AM   #247
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The ultimate outcome of capitalism is slavery. What do antitrust and warring farmers have to do with the fact the ethanol is crap?



1911fan
Ahhhh, but it's not crap. There's the rub.
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Old 07-15-2013, 06:37 AM   #248
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I say we have bumper stickers made up. PROTEST ETHANOL / BOYCOTT CORN We'll vote with our wallets.
Hey, it's a free country. An even better one for you would be "I'm Big Oils Butt Boy".
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Old 07-15-2013, 06:43 AM   #249
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Hey, it's a free country. An even better one for you would be "I'm Big Oils Butt Boy".
We all know about farmers and their relationships with their animals.
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Old 07-15-2013, 06:47 AM   #250
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Hey, it's a free country. An even better one for you would be "I'm Big Oils Butt Boy".
It's better than being yours.
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Old 07-15-2013, 06:53 AM   #251
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It's better than being yours.
The feeling is mutual. Does big oil give you a reach around?
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Old 07-15-2013, 07:08 AM   #252
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The feeling is mutual. Does big oil give you a reach around?
Appreciate the offer , NOT interested.
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Old 07-15-2013, 09:14 AM   #253
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are the vehicles State-side using E15 or higher or still using mogas and diesel? not mixed but "gas" engines using gas and diesel using diesel?
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Old 07-15-2013, 11:26 AM   #254
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are the vehicles State-side using E15 or higher or still using mogas and diesel? not mixed but "gas" engines using gas and diesel using diesel?
What's mogas?
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:16 PM   #255
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What's mogas?
The opposite of less gas.
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