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Old 07-19-2013, 06:31 AM   #331
the_sandman_454
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Originally Posted by bv11 View Post
I haven't been a kid for a long time, and I wish my means were such that selling everything I have would make any difference whatsoever in this situation. As it is, I feed as many people as I am able.

I never disputed people would do whatever makes them the most money, just that this particular vile option wouldn't exist if we had never started turning food into gas. There doesn't seem to be much support for it beyond those who stand to profit, and those who benefit from their lobbying efforts.

How much more corn would be available for donation to NGO's if over a quarter of the total harvest wasn't being diverted to make fuel? How much more would they be able to buy if prices weren't inflated by this diversion? How many dead kids is ethanol worth? Just ballpark it to the nearest thousand.
Actually, probably less than you would expect, depending on what the prices did and how much the charities were willing to pay for the corn. If the price drops too far, growers will switch to more profitable crops, which nobody with a hint of capitalism in his blood will fault them for.

Besides, what those people need isn't food. They need assistance/understanding to figure out how to make their own. If you just give them a bunch of food without helping them become self sufficient, you run the risk of a population boom over there. Then when the gravy train eventually stops, many more people will be available to starve.
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Old 07-19-2013, 06:43 AM   #332
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Originally Posted by the_sandman_454 View Post
Actually, probably less than you would expect, depending on what the prices did and how much the charities were willing to pay for the corn. If the price drops too far, growers will switch to more profitable crops, which nobody with a hint of capitalism in his blood will fault them for.

Besides, what those people need isn't food. They need assistance/understanding to figure out how to make their own. If you just give them a bunch of food without helping them become self sufficient, you run the risk of a population boom over there. Then when the gravy train eventually stops, many more people will be available to starve.
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Old 07-19-2013, 07:02 AM   #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bv11 View Post
I haven't been a kid for a long time, and I wish my means were such that selling everything I have would make any difference whatsoever in this situation. As it is, I feed as many people as I am able.

I never disputed people would do whatever makes them the most money, just that this particular vile option wouldn't exist if we had never started turning food into gas. There doesn't seem to be much support for it beyond those who stand to profit, and those who benefit from their lobbying efforts.

How much more corn would be available for donation to NGO's if over a quarter of the total harvest wasn't being diverted to make fuel? How much more would they be able to buy if prices weren't inflated by this diversion? How many dead kids is ethanol worth? Just ballpark it to the nearest thousand.
This is dumb, poorly thought out.





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Originally Posted by the_sandman_454 View Post
Actually, probably less than you would expect, depending on what the prices did and how much the charities were willing to pay for the corn. If the price drops too far, growers will switch to more profitable crops, which nobody with a hint of capitalism in his blood will fault them for.

Besides, what those people need isn't food. They need assistance/understanding to figure out how to make their own. If you just give them a bunch of food without helping them become self sufficient, you run the risk of a population boom over there. Then when the gravy train eventually stops, many more people will be available to starve.
They need infrastructure and peace. It's not even about education. They didn't magically lose their ability to survive.
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Old 07-19-2013, 07:21 AM   #334
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They need infrastructure and peace. It's not even about education. They didn't magically lose their ability to survive.
In a place with severely limited resources, you're more likely to experience numerous wars over the limited resources available. You can't reliably fix that with either food donations, infrastructure or education. That will pretty much always happen in such places. One could argue that the wars there are beneficial to help limit the population growth, much like the lack of food itself does. That can't really be fixed by throwing food or money at the problem. The people need to figure out how to sustainably survive on the available limited resources on their own.
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Old 07-19-2013, 07:28 AM   #335
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In a place with severely limited resources, you're more likely to experience numerous wars over the limited resources available. You can't reliably fix that with either food donations, infrastructure or education. That will pretty much always happen in such places. One could argue that the wars there are beneficial to help limit the population growth, much like the lack of food itself does. That can't really be fixed by throwing food or money at the problem. The people need to figure out how to sustainably survive on the available limited resources on their own.
What the fuck did you think I meant? Highways and internet?
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Old 07-19-2013, 07:39 AM   #336
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What the fuck did you think I meant? Highways and internet?
Peace isn't just going to suddenly break out just because the people have food. They're going to want their neighbors resources so their group can expand. This has pretty much been happening since the beginning of time. There are infact still wars over resources occurring today.
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Old 07-19-2013, 07:51 AM   #337
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Peace isn't just going to suddenly break out just because the people have food. They're going to want their neighbors resources so their group can expand. This has pretty much been happening since the beginning of time. There are infact still wars over resources occurring today.
Are you stupid? Go find where I suggested they need food donations. Go on. Go find it.
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Old 07-19-2013, 08:03 AM   #338
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Are you stupid? Go find where I suggested they need food donations. Go on. Go find it.
You said they need infrastructure and peace. These two things are as close to mutually exclusive as can be in an area of scarce resources. One village builds some infrastructure, the next one over will go to war with them to take it. That was pretty much the point of what I'm saying. It doesn't matter if you give them food or infrastructure or if they make it themselves, their neighbors will still try to take it.
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Old 07-19-2013, 08:54 AM   #339
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You said they need infrastructure and peace. These two things are as close to mutually exclusive as can be in an area of scarce resources. One village builds some infrastructure, the next one over will go to war with them to take it. That was pretty much the point of what I'm saying. It doesn't matter if you give them food or infrastructure or if they make it themselves, their neighbors will still try to take it.
That's the dumbest fucking thing anybody has ever said on the internet. The implications of your statement are that we are all better off simply not existing, or, at best, not striving to improve anything, ever. The level of stupidity this rises to is so astounding, there is literally no word for it in any human language, in use or dead. The closest thing I could possibly think of, in terms of sheer stupidity, all involve artificially intelligent chainsaws with a homicidal streak.


Thank you, sir, for the laughs.
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Old 07-19-2013, 11:52 AM   #340
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That's the dumbest fucking thing anybody has ever said on the internet. The implications of your statement are that we are all better off simply not existing, or, at best, not striving to improve anything, ever. The level of stupidity this rises to is so astounding, there is literally no word for it in any human language, in use or dead. The closest thing I could possibly think of, in terms of sheer stupidity, all involve artificially intelligent chainsaws with a homicidal streak.


Thank you, sir, for the laughs.
Please, by all means, educate me on how you plan to make folks in another country coexist with eachother when you distribute stuff? Do you send the military to try to keep the peace while trying to force the residents to behave in a cohesive, civilized society?

I'll be waiting to hear how you plan to do that. How's that been working for the US in afghanistan? Iraq? We can't force people to behave the way we want to or force democracy on them if they don't want it.

That is funny, really, being unable to recognize the differences between a (reasonably) cohesive society (us) and these places full of individual villages or tribes that have no interest in it.
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Old 07-19-2013, 01:11 PM   #341
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Absolutely, you get one tribe still running carburetors in shit and they're going to go to war when nothing is available but E-15.
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Old 07-19-2013, 01:28 PM   #342
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Absolutely, you get one tribe still running carburetors in shit and they're going to go to war when nothing is available but E-15.
War is too expensive, I am a KLR owner afterall. I'll have to come up with a home made version of war that works sort of almost as well as actual storebought war.
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Old 07-19-2013, 01:29 PM   #343
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War is too expensive, I am a KLR owner afterall. I'll have to come up with a home made version of war that works sort of almost as well as actual storebought war.
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Old 07-19-2013, 02:34 PM   #344
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Please, by all means, educate me on how you plan to make folks in another country coexist with eachother when you distribute stuff? Do you send the military to try to keep the peace while trying to force the residents to behave in a cohesive, civilized society?

I'll be waiting to hear how you plan to do that. How's that been working for the US in afghanistan? Iraq? We can't force people to behave the way we want to or force democracy on them if they don't want it.

That is funny, really, being unable to recognize the differences between a (reasonably) cohesive society (us) and these places full of individual villages or tribes that have no interest in it.
I. Have. Not. Advocated. For. Distributing. Anything. To. Anybody.


You have to be completely fucking stupid, and I mean REALLY fucking stupid to confuse me saying they need peace and infrastructure with me saying we (or anybody else) should give them a single goddamn thing. They need peace, obviously, and they need infrastructure, so that they have the ability to improve the whole place. Do you know why westerners don't fight betwixt themselves often? Because they value their TV and McDonald's too much. You saying that certain peoples are just not interested in peace and progress is, in fact, racist. You sir, are a goddamn racist.
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Old 07-19-2013, 04:11 PM   #345
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I. Have. Not. Advocated. For. Distributing. Anything. To. Anybody.


You have to be completely fucking stupid, and I mean REALLY fucking stupid to confuse me saying they need peace and infrastructure with me saying we (or anybody else) should give them a single goddamn thing. They need peace, obviously, and they need infrastructure, so that they have the ability to improve the whole place. Do you know why westerners don't fight betwixt themselves often? Because they value their TV and McDonald's too much. You saying that certain peoples are just not interested in peace and progress is, in fact, racist. You sir, are a goddamn racist.
Interestingly enough, you are the one to bring race into it. I was talking about areas of extremely limited resources and the effect on the local populations thereof.

Pluck the residents of one of the extremely limited resource areas up and drop them in a place with a lot more resources, and there's a good chance these folks' civilization will change to a more peaceful type, engaging in trading rather than wars over scarce resources.

Pluck folks from a place where resources are abundant and drop them into the area of scarce resources, and chances are they'll develop a society similar to the current ones found inside the area of limited resources.

So, unless you can do something to improve the area's resources, you likely won't be planting the seeds of peace anytime soon.

I would appreciate if you stop projecting your racism onto me.
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