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Old 07-19-2013, 10:18 PM   #346
UnsureFooting
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Originally Posted by the_sandman_454 View Post
Interestingly enough, you are the one to bring race into it. I was talking about areas of extremely limited resources and the effect on the local populations thereof.

Pluck the residents of one of the extremely limited resource areas up and drop them in a place with a lot more resources, and there's a good chance these folks' civilization will change to a more peaceful type, engaging in trading rather than wars over scarce resources.

Pluck folks from a place where resources are abundant and drop them into the area of scarce resources, and chances are they'll develop a society similar to the current ones found inside the area of limited resources.

So, unless you can do something to improve the area's resources, you likely won't be planting the seeds of peace anytime soon.

I would appreciate if you stop projecting your racism onto me.
It ain't projecting. You are a racist. You think that some peoples are incapable or disinterested in improving their lot in non violent ways. That makes you a racist.
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Old 07-19-2013, 10:38 PM   #347
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It ain't projecting. You are a racist. You think that some peoples are incapable or disinterested in improving their lot in non violent ways. That makes you a racist.
Interesting. Wrong, but interesting.
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Old 07-20-2013, 05:40 AM   #348
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Interesting. Wrong, but interesting.
Now, you're also a backpedaler. You are a real piece o' work, pal.
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Old 07-20-2013, 05:48 AM   #349
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Now, you're also a backpedaler. You are a real piece o' work, pal.
How does my statement about you being wrong make me a backpedaler? I never claimed you were correct, therefore, the statement you quouted does not show me to be a backpedaler.

If you're feeling sporty, go ahead and justify your misguided thoughts on the subject. Once you've done so, I'll set you straight on the matter.
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Old 07-20-2013, 12:43 PM   #350
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Soooo, about that ethanol in gas... What's up with that? Huh?
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Old 07-20-2013, 12:52 PM   #351
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Soooo, about that ethanol in gas... What's up with that? Huh?
Some if us think it us the worst thing ever and some of us love it and can't figure out how we ever lived without this less than optional fuel additive.

Now can we get back to how I'm a racist please, I'm dying to find out.
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Old 07-20-2013, 12:58 PM   #352
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Soooo, about that ethanol in gas... What's up with that? Huh?
Sitting here watching Autoweek on PBS they just ran a feature on a county that converted their fleet to E-85. They reduced their fuel costs in doing so. Savings were over $100k annually and they were pretty pleased with the reduced co2 emissions they produced too.
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Old 07-20-2013, 01:14 PM   #353
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Sitting here watching Autoweek on PBS they just ran a feature on a county that converted their fleet to E-85. They reduced their fuel costs in doing so. Savings were over $100k annually and they were pretty pleased with the reduced co2 emissions they produced too.
That would be Venezuela wouldn't it? Do they also factor in the CO2 emissions it takes to generate the power to distill the ethanol, and the CO2 emissions from the farm machinery growing/harvesting the crops used to make it? Do they only take into account savings at the pump or is that savings throughout the entire cycle from growing through consumers buying it?
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Old 07-20-2013, 01:26 PM   #354
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That would be Venezuela wouldn't it? Do they also factor in the CO2 emissions it takes to generate the power to distill the ethanol, and the CO2 emissions from the farm machinery growing/harvesting the crops used to make it? Do they only take into account savings at the pump or is that savings throughout the entire cycle from growing through consumers buying it?
County, not country you boob.
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Old 07-20-2013, 01:42 PM   #355
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County, not country you boob.
Oh. Misread that. Well, that is actually far more interesting to me then a country. I'm curious, did you happen to catch the name of the place? I wouldn't mind checking it out some more.
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Old 07-20-2013, 03:19 PM   #356
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Oh. Misread that. Well, that is actually far more interesting to me then a country. I'm curious, did you happen to catch the name of the place? I wouldn't mind checking it out some more.
http://www.motorweek.org/features/gr...yon_county_e85

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Old 07-20-2013, 09:24 PM   #357
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Soooo, about that ethanol in gas... What's up with that? Huh?
99% of the people think it's horse piss!

The other 1% are corn farmers, or are in the ethanol business!
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Old 07-20-2013, 09:46 PM   #358
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Sitting here watching Autoweek on PBS they just ran a feature on a county that converted their fleet to E-85. They reduced their fuel costs in doing so. Savings were over $100k annually and they were pretty pleased with the reduced co2 emissions they produced too.
Not noted in the above statement was the fact that they also installed anti-idling technology. And nowhere in the article does it breakdown the amount of fuel used before and after, the comparative mpg of their fleet before the change (or if the was a fleet change), report the miles driven before or after the change or even avg fuel costs.

I'm not saying they didn't save the $105,000 in annual fuel cost but to attribute that savings to E-85 as your statement does is to conveniently ignore all the contributing factors.
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Old 07-20-2013, 10:44 PM   #359
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Not noted in the above statement was the fact that they also installed anti-idling technology. And nowhere in the article does it breakdown the amount of fuel used before and after, the comparative mpg of their fleet before the change (or if the was a fleet change), report the miles driven before or after the change or even avg fuel costs.

I'm not saying they didn't save the $105,000 in annual fuel cost but to attribute that savings to E-85 as your statement does is to conveniently ignore all the contributing factors.
Ok, contribute all the savings to anti-idling technology if it peels your banana. That would still mean that E-85 was cost competitive with gasoline.
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Old 07-21-2013, 04:14 AM   #360
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That would be Venezuela wouldn't it? Do they also factor in the CO2 emissions it takes to generate the power to distill the ethanol, and the CO2 emissions from the farm machinery growing/harvesting the crops used to make it? Do they only take into account savings at the pump or is that savings throughout the entire cycle from growing through consumers buying it?
Google Venezuela gas prices for a real lesson in subsidized production.

From the US DOE:
Quote:
Using ethanol as a vehicle fuel has measurable GHG emissions benefits compared with using gasoline. Carbon dioxide (CO2) released when ethanol is used in vehicles is offset by the CO2 captured when crops used to make the ethanol are grown. As a result, FFVs running on ethanol produce less net CO2 than conventional vehicles per mile traveled.]
Go here for real info on renewable fuels:
http://www.afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/...emissions.html

And yes, I am an Ethanol producer. We get no subsidy other than the mandate that ~15% (30% by 2030?) of the US motor fuel supply shall be derived from a renewable source by law. Ethanol rack prices approximate the energy content of the Etoh relative to gasoline. An ethanol blend does reduce your milage, so what, you are still paying for the relative energy content in the fuel, plus getting the benefits of using a renewable source, octane boost, etc. I can see that using an Etoh blend in aviation would be problematic due to the reduction in aircraft range, but for road vehicles, a reduction in range isn't a big deal. You get less milage with an Etoh blend, so what, there is more variation in gasoline btu content between winter and summer blends than is caused by blending with a low percentage of Etoh.

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