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Old 06-27-2013, 08:53 AM   #16
lineaway
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting32 View Post
Not the only one, and are you talking about the spring that runs the compression release? I have heard of it, and not figured out how to prevent it, lol.
Oh no, `the` kickstart spring requires a complete engine tear down!?!
Happened on my wife`s bike!
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Old 07-01-2013, 10:48 AM   #17
UtahGuido OP
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Here's some pictures of what has me confused. The first one shows the main jet arrangement that is in my carb, from l to r: the main jet, the baffle, and the needle jet holder. So far so good. But all the diagrams show that there should also be a needle jet to the right of the needle jet holder. Does it fall out of the carb when the holder is removed or is it stuck up in there? The second pic is peering down into the orifice from whence the other three parts came shows a round shiny thing down there. Is that the needle jet? The hole diameter of whatever is down there is such that the needle passes though freely until the little shelf on the needle hits, so about 2.5 mm.







Look normal to you?

Okay, if I attach the throttle slide assembly to the top of the carb and screw it down here's how far down the needle sticks below the jet holder orifice (throttle closed):





In other words not at all. As you might be able to tell the tip of the needle is just about flush with the bottom of the carb body where the needle holder screws in. So when the needle holder and the main jet are installed the orifice in the main jet sits about 6 mm from the tip of the needle (baffle removed for clarity, but it would add another mm or so to the clearance).




This does not seem right to me - my thinking is that the needle tip should seat into the main jet. In the current situation the tip of the needle is nowhere near the main jet and the only thing keeping gas from getting through the main jet and into the mixture at idle and low throttle is the clearance around the needle and the needle jet (I'm assuming it's actually in there, that shiny thing in picture 2 is it). If the needle jet is worn the mixture will be rich and the plug black, which is my situation. And the needle jet does not seem to be available anymore, and even if it is how do you get the bloody thing out?

So, whazzup?

Hey Twinshock - got a link to that 27 carb on ebay?
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Old 07-01-2013, 11:23 AM   #18
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The holder `IS` the needle jet. The little brass piece in the carb body is the needle guide. You are making this way too hard. And if you think an EBAY carb comes pre-jetted, lot`s of luck.
Everything you needed was right here. I did not write it. I did not use it, but it is good info.
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...44&postcount=1
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Old 07-01-2013, 11:28 AM   #19
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Laugh

Addendum to my previous post: Talking with Bob at P&J clued me that the gas supply up into the venturi from the main is regulated by the taper of the needle at the needle jet, not by the tip of the needle seating into the main. So apparently by carb and needle are set up fine. Clears that up.

Well, at least you guys can look at some neat pictures.

Edit: Thanks lineaway. I guess I'll just put it all back together and ride it. Hopefully it runs.
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Old 07-01-2013, 11:41 AM   #20
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So, yes it should run. But did you ever re-jet ? It`ll be interesting if `Bob` comes to our august event in Colorado. I met him at the world round, maybe I caught him at a bad moment. (he seemed full of himself) Usually I enjoy most trials riders, but he struck a nerve. (Sure glad he started ITSA though!)
Our Delores event is part of Itsa`s national series this year. He was up in the air on showing up or not. I actually just wanted to ride with his son.
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Old 07-01-2013, 12:16 PM   #21
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At the risk of belaboring the point here's the standard diagram of the TLR200 carb:



That thing labeled as #3 with the box around it is identified in my shop manual as the "needle jet". The thing labeled #11 is identified as the "needle jet holder". And then there's the baffle and main jet. There is nothing identified as a "needle guide". Anyone going by the official diagrams is going to conclude that the "needle jet" and "needle jet holder" are two separate items. And in fact having closely studied the thing on my workbench I conclude that the needle jet holder IS NOT the needle jet, and it appears that what the diagrams identify as the "needle jet" is embedded up in the carb and does not readily come out. I'm getting persnicketty here because anyone trying to understand these carburetors based on published diagrams and such statements as "..the holder `IS` the needle jet." is going to come away confused. Now in the community of TLR200 owners, of which I am a noob, there may be general agreement that the needle jet and needle jet holder are the same thing despite what the shop diagram says. If so let's make that clear.

And I did study the link you refer to, repeatedly. I even ordered the part #16012-KJ2-305, which on some sites is listed as the "needle jet". Nope. It is, as Taxonomy says, a kit containing a new needle, an air screw, and cap which limits the rotation of the air crew to a quarter turn, not a cap that, as Taxonomy says, "...will let you manipulate it even though it's behind a frame tube....". Not true, unless he and I got different parts in our kit.

I'm probably a little OCD about stuff like this but conflicting information stated as fact drives me slightly nuts. Things is or they ain't.
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UtahGuido screwed with this post 07-01-2013 at 12:54 PM Reason: word change. precision in language, ya know.
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Old 07-01-2013, 01:00 PM   #22
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As I said it had good info(like jetting) info that I used as a guide. You can`t always use a parts description as fact. I`ve got many years on both sides of a parts counter. It was actually described as holder, needle jet. As needle jet, threads for main. Remember most of these things are translated also. We get really weird translations on the Spanish brands!
Hope it all works out for you, go ride and have FUN!
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Old 07-01-2013, 01:33 PM   #23
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Yowzah. It's all good when it makes sense.

It's too friggin' hot right now to ride, even if the bike were together. Maybe this evening. In the meantime I'll have another picture or two to post up.
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Old 07-01-2013, 05:16 PM   #24
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Huzzah! It runs! Pretty well too, so far.

Since I had that new air screw I thought I would make it so I could adjust it while the bike was running. I epoxied a copper washer onto the air screw then covered that with metal putty epoxy. Should hold long enough to get it dialed in.








So I ended up returning the air filter and snorkel back to their original state, fixed a bad ground from the CDI unit, and put in a new plug, examined the carburetor thoroughly, and modded the air screw so I can adjust it. After all that I'm thinking this carb ought to work just fine. After riding around for just a few minutes the new plug is white as a bone so maybe I've traded my rich condition for a lean one. Too early to tell I think but if so I may be looking back for lineaway's drill recommendation for drilling that pilot jet.
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Old 07-01-2013, 05:24 PM   #25
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Well I hope you are back to starting in one or two kicks!
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Old 07-02-2013, 06:14 AM   #26
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US smog spec TLR's seem to be set up very lean. Also bearing in mind the carbs on these bikes are nearly 30 years old, and most badly worn, the easy way to sort both problems is a Taiwan made direct replacement for OE, that costs approx $50.
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Old 07-02-2013, 01:32 PM   #27
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The small moto unit is starting first kick, no choke (but it's 85 degrees in the garage) and I don't see any point in getting a new carburetor - this one seems to be working fine. Once it warms up I can adjust the idle down to a tick, tick, tick, and it pulls from there just fine with no stumble. It revs as high as I want to go with a nice little soft pop, pop when I back off - could be even a tad lean. The air screw, even with my mod, is still a bugger to get to without burning my hand on the exhaust but it doesn't seem to need much adjustment. And it seems to wheelie with less effort. All in all I'm pleased. Oh, and did I say it starts first kick?

Here's the plug after 20 minutes or so of putting around, with a couple "high speed" runs up the street:



It might darken up with time but right now it looks a little lean

I ran across a thread on Trial Central where a guy said that the pilot jet (#40) from a 1975/76 CB400F would work in these carbs, Honda part # 99124-076-0400. I found a site that sells them for $1.92 and mails it USPS first class for $2.95 or so. So for less than 5 bucks I'll find out. If it doesn't work maybe I can incorporate it into a wind chime or something
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Old 07-02-2013, 03:19 PM   #28
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You really should go up a size on the main also. I put in a 100, but did not try anything in between. Let us know if that pilot works!
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Old 07-03-2013, 12:25 AM   #29
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Main reason for changing a carb thats nearly 30 years old, is that its a wear item, and your bike will run am awful lot better with a new one.

The Taiwan made replacements are set up perfectly, and are something that in combination with removing the flame trap, and intake silencer baffles, will make almost all TLRs perform far far better.
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Old 07-03-2013, 07:59 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Twin-shocker View Post
Main reason for changing a carb thats nearly 30 years old, is that its a wear item, and your bike will run am awful lot better with a new one.
Carburetor as wear item. I read that and thought, what the heck in a carburetor wears out besides the jets, and they're replaceable? And gaskets too. So I googled the topic and came up with this, concerning Amal carburetors:

Quote:
"The most wear prone item in the carburetor besides the throttle valve (Slide, to most of us) is the needle jet. Because of the relatively small internal surface area of the brass jet in contact with the stainless steel throttle needle which is constantly moving up and down with the slide, a high degree of wear is inevitable. While opinions may vary, it has been our experience that most needle jets are worn beyond specification in 10,000 miles or less. Remember, a mere .001 of wear changes your #106 jet to a #107. "
source: http://www.amr-of-tucson.com/carb_facts.html

Seeing as how the needle jet in these TLR cabs appears to be embedded up in the carb body and not replaceable you may have a point. A new carb probably would be a good thing, sometime, eventually, down the line. I wonder, however, about the quality of those chinese units on eBay.
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