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Old 06-28-2013, 11:11 AM   #61
glasswave
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Originally Posted by Foot dragger View Post
Your a bit of Troll arent you? Riders CAN control risks by not behaving in the manner of the riders most likely to be wiped out by a car.
No, I am not a troll. I was just pointing out that calling statistics useless lies, pretending they don't exist or rationalizing that they don't apply to oneself is rather callow.

I never stated that riders cannot manage (I don't think control is a good word here) the risks associated with motorcycling and behave in ways that lessen them. In fact, I state quite the opposite. "I am happy to have [statistical information], because it allows me to assess the risks and act in ways to eliminate or minimize them." Also, in my first post I actually enumerate several risk reduction strategies.

It seems as if you did not even read my post completely before replying to it.

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Its a fact not a superstition that Motorbikes have always attracted thrill seekers and non conformists,some of them are 100% Darwin candidates and they show up in statistics.
Again, I never indicated that it was mere superstition that motos attract thrill seekers. OTH, to imply that only the foolish end up in serious accidents and thus become part of accident statistics is simply naive. Any review of face plant, motorcycle accident reporting or making a serious investigation into the stats will reveal that it is quite common for experienced, well trained motorcyclists to be seriously injured of killed in accidents that involve no fault of their own.

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Originally Posted by Foot dragger View Post
For instance I rode to Alasaka and back on a BMW,the only exciting moment on the road was caused by an idiot who talked his way into going along with us. I kept safe distance from cars,didnt ride too fast,just kept moving along.

But there were MANY chances to put myself in harm's way,I just didnt take them. Those that do,end up in statistics.
While it's good to hear that you ride carefully, your anecdotal story has nothing to do with what is plainly evident in the statistics and your insinuation that because you ride carefully, only others risk serious accident is pretending to be oblivious of the facts.

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As far as getting randomly wiped out by an oncoming car,that can happen in a convertible or any motor vehicle,the slaughter on the hiways continues despite the many layers of padding and straps put into a modern car.
This is very true, although I hope you are not implying that I am not the one who stated that I bought a convertible to reduce my exposure to the risks of motorcycling, I am not. That said, any review of accident injury stats will reveal that the likelihood of serious injury or death in and accident is much lower for seat belted drivers in modern cars than it is for motorbikers.

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Humans are healthier when they have some risk in their lives....
And 'how do you know this?', probably because you read it in an article quoting a statistical study.

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Originally Posted by Foot dragger View Post
There is 0 guarantee that any of us will be here tomorrow,despite what the ins companies sell you all your life long,you or I can be gone in an instant just walking along and WHAM! Your all gone.

Best enjoy it while you can.
I engage in many "risky" activities (whitewater kayaking, backcountry skiing, mountaineering, motorbiking in developing countries...etc.), but I certainly don't ignore the risks of such activities or pretend that the risks/statistics don't apply to me. To do so would be simply ignorant.

To be purposely nescient does nothing to improve the quality of one's life.
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Old 06-28-2013, 11:34 AM   #62
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Bravo in the use of nescient. I thought I was the only person on the interwebs who used it.
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Old 06-28-2013, 11:56 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Paebr332 View Post
Bravo in the use of nescient.
I had to look it up. Hopefully I can remember it when necessary.
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:18 PM   #64
glasswave
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Bravo in the use of nescient. I thought I was the only person on the interwebs who used it.
I've always had an impulse to become somewhat of a sesquepedilian when in retort to a critical reply.
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Old 06-28-2013, 04:02 PM   #65
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Personally, I don't get why some people have an aversion to riding at night. Not that I've researched it but are there any (damned) statistics that show riding at night as being riskier?

I think riding at night is awesome and really enjoy it.

MY opinions on the risks of riding at night:

1) Deer and other critters seem to be more likely to be willing to commit vehicular suicide at night. This is the thing I worry about most riding at night.

2) Other vehicles. I think, if you have decent headlight/aux lighting, that it's less likely to get SMIDSY'd by a cager. That said, it is probably more likely that other road users may have some alcohol in their bloodstream.

3) Have good lighting and don't outride it. I try to get as much light as I can as far and wide down the road as possible to mitigate risk. (Without blinding oncoming road users or the mirrors of the guy in front of you.)

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Old 06-29-2013, 06:59 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by glasswave View Post
No, I am not a troll. I was just pointing out that calling statistics useless lies, pretending they don't exist or rationalizing that they don't apply to oneself is rather callow.

I never stated that riders cannot manage (I don't think control is a good word here) the risks associated with motorcycling and behave in ways that lessen them. In fact, I state quite the opposite. "I am happy to have [statistical information], because it allows me to assess the risks and act in ways to eliminate or minimize them." Also, in my first post I actually enumerate several risk reduction strategies.

It seems as if you did not even read my post completely before replying to it.


Again, I never indicated that it was mere superstition that motos attract thrill seekers. OTH, to imply that only the foolish end up in serious accidents and thus become part of accident statistics is simply naive. Any review of face plant, motorcycle accident reporting or making a serious investigation into the stats will reveal that it is quite common for experienced, well trained motorcyclists to be seriously injured of killed in accidents that involve no fault of their own.



While it's good to hear that you ride carefully, your anecdotal story has nothing to do with what is plainly evident in the statistics and your insinuation that because you ride carefully, only others risk serious accident is pretending to be oblivious of the facts.


This is very true, although I hope you are not implying that I am not the one who stated that I bought a convertible to reduce my exposure to the risks of motorcycling, I am not. That said, any review of accident injury stats will reveal that the likelihood of serious injury or death in and accident is much lower for seat belted drivers in modern cars than it is for motorbikers.


And 'how do you know this?', probably because you read it in an article quoting a statistical study.


I engage in many "risky" activities (whitewater kayaking, backcountry skiing, mountaineering, motorbiking in developing countries...etc.), but I certainly don't ignore the risks of such activities or pretend that the risks/statistics don't apply to me. To do so would be simply ignorant.

To be purposely nescient does nothing to improve the quality of one's life.
Actually you are a troll, and nobody wants to read your entire posts. You should take a course in efficient writing and learn how to curb your arrogance...
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Old 06-29-2013, 07:53 AM   #67
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Without reading the book or it's sources.

There is a vast number of support personnel in Afghanistan that are not exposed to combat. "Fighting in Afghanistan" gives most people the impression of soldiers on patrol, which is far more dangerous than being a non-combat support personnel.

A large majority of the American motorcycle population use motorcycles only to engage in more risky activities (bar hopping or thrill seeking). This skews this death-ratio upwards from what this more risk-adverse (mature adventure riding) population experiences.

I have no doubt that the statistics are mathematically accurate, but they do not give an accurate depiction of reality.



My motorcycles are my only form of transportation. I am a mature, conservative adult rider with no accidents or speeding tickets on a bike, but that doesn't mean I'll live forever. If I am tired, if I am late for work, if it is raining, if I am angry, if it's 105 degrees outside, if I had a (single) beer after work, if it's 30 degrees outside, I will be getting on the bike and riding because that is what I love to do. The preservation of life is not the primary goal of living. I accept that death will catch up to me no matter what I do. How do you want to die?
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Old 06-29-2013, 08:00 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Pantah View Post
Actually you are a troll, and nobody wants to read your entire posts. You should take a course in efficient writing and learn how to curb your arrogance...
Just saying something does not make it so. If you don't want to read my posts then don't.
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Old 06-30-2013, 01:01 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duck View Post
Personally, I don't get why some people have an aversion to riding at night. Not that I've researched it but are there any (damned) statistics that show riding at night as being riskier?

I think riding at night is awesome and really enjoy it.

MY opinions on the risks of riding at night:

1) Deer and other critters seem to be more likely to be willing to commit vehicular suicide at night. This is the thing I worry about most riding at night.

2) Other vehicles. I think, if you have decent headlight/aux lighting, that it's less likely to get SMIDSY'd by a cager. That said, it is probably more likely that other road users may have some alcohol in their bloodstream.

3) Have good lighting and don't outride it. I try to get as much light as I can as far and wide down the road as possible to mitigate risk. (Without blinding oncoming road users or the mirrors of the guy in front of you.)
I gave up night riding several years ago, and frankly would like to give up night driving which I find discomfiting. On the bike, I found it much harder to maintain my intended line, to tell whether the change of pavement ahead was a patch or a pothole. Old vision (I'm now 66) is not as good as younger vision - even corrected by good glasses. And, depending on where you ride, there is also the possibility of more deer or drunks.

Certainly not telling anyone they shouldn't ride at night - but observe how you feel. When the danger vs pleasure quotient tilted the wrong way, I quit that part of riding.
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Old 06-30-2013, 01:27 AM   #70
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ok guys i read this blog so i don't have to look up words, oh yea to look at the fantastic pictures also.
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Old 06-30-2013, 09:41 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duck View Post
Personally, I don't get why some people have an aversion to riding at night. Not that I've researched it but are there any (damned) statistics that show riding at night as being riskier?
At least one study that I have read (the Hurt report which is very old) reports darkness being corollary to increased accident risk. I don't recall what the MAIDS report had to say about it. Lighting systems, brakes etc are much better now, so maybe things have changed somewhat.
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Old 07-01-2013, 09:07 AM   #72
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People have a lot of problem with the phrase,

"Motorcycles are extremely dangerous."

Perhaps a statement more reflective of the state of things would be,

"Motorcycles are extremely unforgiving."
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Old 07-01-2013, 02:12 PM   #73
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Living is extremely dangerous. No one has ever survived so far!
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Old 07-02-2013, 05:17 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by chasssmash View Post
Btw the book is called the Norm Chronicles and it estimated the risk of a days riding at around 60 micronorts compared to a day fighting in Afganistan at 45 micronorts. This basically means you have 60 chances in a million of dying on a bike a day and 45 chances in a million of dying in a day in Afghanistan.
I've yet to come across a micronort. They sound a bit scary. Do they eat people, or just kill for fun.
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Old 07-02-2013, 05:27 AM   #75
Aj Mick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jordan325ic View Post
My motorcycles are my only form of transportation. I am a mature, conservative adult rider with no accidents or speeding tickets on a bike, but that doesn't mean I'll live forever. If I am tired, if I am late for work, if it is raining, if I am angry, if it's 105 degrees outside, if I had a (single) beer after work, if it's 30 degrees outside, I will be getting on the bike and riding because that is what I love to do. The preservation of life is not the primary goal of living. I accept that death will catch up to me no matter what I do. How do you want to die?
Nicely put.

I have been riding to get around since 1969, and have seldom owned a car.

I got a a couple of speeding tickets in the early seventies. In early 1976 I was knocked off my bike by a fast moving car as the driver pulled in after overtaking the car behind me.... "I didn't see you," he said. His fault, but had I been more aware and better positioned on the road i could probably have avoided the accident.

Since then the post above could equally apply to me, and sums up my point of view.
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