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Old 07-04-2013, 07:09 AM   #31
Emmbeedee
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Originally Posted by Albie View Post
Unfortunately if you're both a street and dual sport rider then you pretty much have to have BOTH units. Which at the end of the day is Garmins plan.
The Montana's as close as you can get to having one device which does both reasonably well.
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Old 07-04-2013, 07:29 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Albie View Post
Unfortunately if you're both a street and dual sport rider then you pretty much have to have BOTH units. Which at the end of the day is Garmins plan.
I guess I will wait. Keep the 60CX on the dual sport and ride with the sun and the old zumo on the street bike.
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Old 07-04-2013, 09:33 AM   #33
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I'm firmly in the camp that the Montana is like a lot of DP motos, it can do a lot of things but doesn't do any of them well....and it's frustrating since a lot of the weaknesses are firmware which could be remedied and with Garmin's consistently utter lack of documentation can't be foreseen prior to purchase. I can only guess it's a deliberate tactic to sell more units which is aggravating and means it will be longer before I purchase another unit from them... YMMV
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Old 07-04-2013, 01:53 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Emmbeedee View Post
The Montana's as close as you can get to having one device which does both reasonably well.
Which isn't close enough for me. So I have to use them both.
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Old 07-08-2013, 03:26 PM   #35
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I agree; it's likely any bugs with the Monterra will be software fixable. But I do hope we can find out what the CPU will be.
Rob
The processor in the Monterra is a TI omap 4460/4470 x2 1.2GHz.

What do you think of this?
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Old 07-08-2013, 04:11 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by afmeyer View Post
The processor in the Monterra is a TI omap 4460/4470 x2 1.2GHz.

What do you think of this?
Since Garmin does not publish info on internal components, I'd say that was an interesting guess or someone has had a pre-prod unit apart - which of course would be in violation of their Garmin NDA - and certainly no one would do that.
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Old 07-08-2013, 06:53 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by SteveAZ View Post
it's frustrating since a lot of the weaknesses are firmware which could be remedied and with Garmin's consistently utter lack of documentation can't be foreseen prior to purchase.

I can only guess it's a deliberate tactic to sell more units which is aggravating and means it will be longer before I purchase another unit from them... YMMV
On 1) Totally agree, their hardware is fantastic but their firmware sucks. I am sure drtBik knows but it smells like outside contractor, that is clueless about customer wants and needs.

On 2) Many people think the same thing about government and off road vehicles, but as a very high up USFS friend of mine says " trust me they are not that smart".
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Old 07-08-2013, 08:35 PM   #38
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On 1) Totally agree, their hardware is fantastic but their firmware sucks. I am sure drtBik knows but it smells like outside contractor, that is clueless about customer wants and needs.

On 2) Many people think the same thing about government and off road vehicles, but as a very high up USFS friend of mine says " trust me they are not that smart".
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveAZ View Post
I'm firmly in the camp that the Montana is like a lot of DP motos, it can do a lot of things but doesn't do any of them well....and it's frustrating since a lot of the weaknesses are firmware which could be remedied and with Garmin's consistently utter lack of documentation can't be foreseen prior to purchase. I can only guess it's a deliberate tactic to sell more units which is aggravating and means it will be longer before I purchase another unit from them... YMMV
  1. Last I knew, Garmin does all things in-house.
  2. As for how smart Garmin is, well they do own 68% of the PND (standalone GPS) market according to recent market analysis. I suppose that doesn't necessarily equate to "smart" but they must be making products that people want.

If one purchase a product without knowing what it can do who's fault is that?
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Old 07-08-2013, 09:44 PM   #39
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[LIST=1][*]Last I knew, Garmin does all things in-house.
Then they need to clean house! If the software engineers I used to work with in telecom put out that kind of shoddy software they would have been shitcanned in a heartbeat. Just sayin.
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Old 07-08-2013, 09:47 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by DRTBYK View Post

Last I knew, Garmin does all things in-house.
Many companies use contractors and still do things "in-house" and as confident as I am that Garmin does indeed utilize contractors the whole discussion seems a distraction regarding the Montana and its foibles.
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Originally Posted by DRTBYK View Post
As for how smart Garmin is, well they do own 68% of the PND (standalone GPS) market according to recent market analysis. I suppose that doesn't necessarily equate to "smart" but they must be making products that people want.
Again this seems a distraction from the topic at hand. Just because they own market share doesn't mean they are making the products people want. E.g. many have argued this regarding microsoft circa 2000.
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If one purchase a product without knowing what it can do who's fault is that?
One of the principal rules in sales when there is a desire for repeat business (vs. used cars) is to set appropriate customer expectations.

It is very easy to argue that Garmin makes it darn near impossible to know the details of what the product can do prior to purchase. Shame on them. While it could be argued that a GPS isn't a necessity it's such a powerful tool that it's close enough to one for plenty of us, myself included. It's not like I didn't try very hard to research the device prior to purchase. I found a lot on this site for example; other non-garmin sites too.

But as *you* know, I'm quite disappointed with it.

My expectations were for a unit that having been out for two years would not be so buggy. I expected functionality based on the past Garmin multi-purpose units I've owned in a similar cost class like the x76/x96 series with the improvements in units produced a decade later. From what I can tell a lot of people had similar expectations and they seem very reasonable, particularly based on the dearth of documentation Garmin supplies.

The Montana is not that unit. Garmin is failing miserably at that task of setting (or at least enabling) the customer expectations regarding the limitations and capabilities of the unit. That is their fault.

And the real shame is that the unit could be a *lot* closer with better firmware....
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:47 AM   #41
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Does anyone have an opinion on the processor?
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:30 AM   #42
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A better place for the Monterra discussion might be over here....
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:45 AM   #43
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Does anyone have an opinion on the processor?
Contrary to what has been said, it's usually not that hard to find out which processors are used in products, especially products designed in the US. Too many people inside and outside the company will know to keep it a secret even if they're all supposed to.

I haven't been familiar with the specific omap's nor what Garmin's been using for processors for a couple of years. The omap's have always been exceptionally powerful ARM-based processors that are very power efficient for the processing power (high Mips/W). Freescale has generally had processors close on the heels but the omap's are great.

I wouldn't be too concerned about the processor choice from the performance perspective, more for how it impacts development efforts! I'm certain TI gives Garmin good support - they're considered a very key processor account and TI's players are going to be very interested especially since their purchase is much easier to track (and be compensated for) than many other parts and it gives them a leg to sell harder to track associated parts (e.g. interface, power controllers, etc.).

It will be interesting to see how Garmin does with android. In the old days their OS's were roll-your-own... I'm not sure if they have been purchasing an OS for the later units like the floptana and I'm also not sure how much linux/android work they've already done although I wouldn't be surprised if later units are already using some variation of linux so android's not a great leap. It's easy to find linux/android guys though...even if they end up using some contractors...
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:49 AM   #44
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Many companies use contractors and still do things "in-house" and as confident as I am that Garmin does indeed utilize contractors the whole discussion seems a distraction regarding the Montana and its foibles.

Again this seems a distraction from the topic at hand. Just because they own market share doesn't mean they are making the products people want. E.g. many have argued this regarding microsoft circa 2000.


One of the principal rules in sales when there is a desire for repeat business (vs. used cars) is to set appropriate customer expectations.

It is very easy to argue that Garmin makes it darn near impossible to know the details of what the product can do prior to purchase. Shame on them. While it could be argued that a GPS isn't a necessity it's such a powerful tool that it's close enough to one for plenty of us, myself included. It's not like I didn't try very hard to research the device prior to purchase. I found a lot on this site for example; other non-garmin sites too.

But as *you* know, I'm quite disappointed with it.

My expectations were for a unit that having been out for two years would not be so buggy. I expected functionality based on the past Garmin multi-purpose units I've owned in a similar cost class like the x76/x96 series with the improvements in units produced a decade later. From what I can tell a lot of people had similar expectations and they seem very reasonable, particularly based on the dearth of documentation Garmin supplies.

The Montana is not that unit. Garmin is failing miserably at that task of setting (or at least enabling) the customer expectations regarding the limitations and capabilities of the unit. That is their fault.

And the real shame is that the unit could be a *lot* closer with better firmware....
As we have discussed in other threads, your opinion is always welcome and I urge you to not let up on Garmin in this regard. I do believe if we communicate with Garmin we do see some amount of positive results (however slowly). We have the Montana because several dozen people around the world wrote to Cliff Pemble and told him what we wanted. We didn't get 100% - we got 90%. I don't know if there's even an option to get the other 10% of functionality into the Montana. I do know that it has served me and many others very well all over the world in all types of riding. There is very little the device cannot do - yes, it may not do some things the way a lot of us would like but never the less there are few other devices that can match it in it's totality.

Garmin does read your mail so I encourage you, Jerry and everyone else to communicate your interests.
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:40 AM   #45
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Thanks for this thread. It is timely for me. The last few years I've been using a 60csx on two motorcycles. I needed to be able to read and make tracks. I figured out Basecamp for Mac and have been very happy with it. Last year from my desk, I used my Mac to generate tracks to scout the GWT north of Phoenix. I even made tracks for Smokey Mountain road through the Escalante wilderness. Then went out and rode it. Amazing device for exploring on a dual sport! the tracks I drew on Basecamp actually worked quite well.

Recently I bought a Montana 650T second hand. It had only been used once. But before I could use it, I lent it to a friend who used to to contest the Mexican 1000 last May aboard a KTM 500. I just got around to mounting it on my KTM 690. I soon learned it won't route until I buy a new Citynav NA, which I did this morning.

I hope this thing is easy to use. I sort of regret not keeping the 60Csx now. It was a little fiddly, but did everything I wanted.

When my map CD arrives, do I load that into my Mac and then transfer it to the 650? I can't remember how I get the maps into the hand device.

Thanks
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