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Old 06-30-2013, 05:16 AM   #16
concours
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Your compression test reveals good compression, so this may not apply to you. The common failure mode to air cooled ATV's is MUD CAKED CYLINDER and then the cooling ceases, rapid piston/ring/bore wear/excessive oil consumption quickly follow. Suzuki Quadsport/runner 230 were easily ruined.
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Old 06-30-2013, 09:16 AM   #17
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concours I see what your saying now.

Switchblade315 yea that makes sense I can see the muffler is pretty oily. Yea it looks like it'll be a PITA to get it out, but I'll try and get the manual soon.
it will burn out over time, but you can wash it out with any solvent and leave it to dry a few days, it will help.
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Old 07-01-2013, 04:44 AM   #18
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it will burn out over time, but you can wash it out with any solvent and leave it to dry a few days, it will help.
Here in the rusty North, we call it rustproofing
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Old 07-04-2013, 11:43 AM   #19
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So yestarday I tore the engine apart. I downloaded the manual and it was pretty helpful. Ran into a couple pain in the asses like the cam bolt being extremely tight and trying to find a 12 point socket the right size for the head bolts [I haven't seen bolts like that before], and then loosening them without stripping due to extreme tightness, but I just never gave up and got it all off.

So, the compression rings look good I think, and the oil ring doesn't look broken or anything obvious. I don't know if its worn or not, I will take a pic and post it later and see what y'all think. I think the piston looks ok, and the cylinder appears to be ok with maybe a little scratching. There is a good amount of carbon buildup on the valve head though.

So I'm thinking maybe get the cylinder honed, and replace the rings? I'll post pics so y'all can tell me what the rings look like.

The manual says compression should be 120-140 or so I believe, so it has perfect, and I can feel the compression when I pulled the pull starter rope. So it HAS to be the oil ring right? Not valve seals due to constant smoking?
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:18 PM   #20
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Any ideas?

So any ideas how to tell if the oil rings are bad? I will post a pic ASAP when I get back to my garage. I do notice the oil ring is not as wide as the compression rings, but they are not damaged and appear to be in ok shape looks wise. I also took off one of the oil rings and tried to put it in the cylinder, it fits but not very tight. Could this be the cause of the problem?

I also notice there is scratching on the piston and cylinder where the intake valve is, I can feel it with my finger nails a little. But if this was my problem wouldn't I have lost compression?
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:05 PM   #21
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Time to take the valves out and inspect the valve stems and guides. You may find that what caused the scratches is metallic chaff from either the guides or stem. Doesn't take much oil running down that way to create a lot of smoke and carbon build-ups.
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:33 PM   #22
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you can slide the rings down into the cylinder and check the gap between the ends with a filler gauge if the manual tells you what the ring gap is suppose to be.
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:48 PM   #23
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Pics!

Ok, so I got the pics.



[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

As you can see here in Photo #3, the other side of the piston [exhaust side], appears to have a few scratches, although much less they actually seem deeper than the other side.

[IMG][/IMG]

BTW I took off the top oil ring already.



So, what do y'all think? As you can tell the oil ring almost looks like a smaller diameter than the compression rings, or is it just supposed to be that way?

This is really confusing, I had good compression, so it has all the sings of a bad oil ring, yet the oil ring looks fine and not broken!

H96669 I'll check the valves, but I thought usually if thats the issue it would not smoke as much once warmed up/ or vice versa?

Do you guys think the scratching is the problem? Small bits of oil sliding thru? It has the same scratch marks in the cylinder, although they are slightly less severe.


But like I said, I had nothing to do with what happened to this thing. If overheating caused all this I wouldn't be suprised, it can't be good going up an extreme grade WFO on a 100 degree summer day way over weight with a trailor on an air cooled 300 [keep in mind despite WFO the speed is still low under 20 MPH or 15 or less who knows so little air lots of work]. Or doing the same on a rainy day when the manure gets mixed with the wet dirt [these are large corrals with dirt on the buttom], trailers can weigh between 1,000 and 2,100 plus rider when fully loaded.

ALSO, this bike has done LOTS of start stop start stop start stop, as it was used to feed 2X a day, some people start it and shut off every stall or 2, and back then there was 98 head of horses at the ranch.

I just want to get to the bottom of this. Thanks please help!
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Old 07-04-2013, 07:35 PM   #24
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And happy 4th of July to y'all!
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Old 07-04-2013, 08:05 PM   #25
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How you cheack for ring wear is you remove the ring from the piston and put it in the cylinder and use a feeler gauge to measure the gap between the ends of the ring.

How does the inside of the cylinder look, is it scored much? Also, was there much carbon depositing up in the top of the head?

Also, look at the valve stems up by the valve face, especially the exhaust valve. If you get oil going past the valves in a significant amount it will cook and make a large deposit there. if the carbon is absent it does not mean it is not leaking there, but if you have a blob of it on the valves then it does confirm you have leakage there too.

Anyway, I suspect there will be scoring on the cylinder opposite where the marks are on your piston but hopefully it can clean up OK and a new set of rings and valve regrind and you'll be good to go.
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Old 07-04-2013, 08:06 PM   #26
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...And a happy Independence Day to you too!
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Old 07-04-2013, 08:13 PM   #27
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You need to MEASURE to know if the parts are within service limits, or worn. Visual inspection is only PART of the process. You can spend WAY TOO MUCH money and still miss the problem if you don't. How is the air filter in this bike? Did it have the dreaded mud caked cylinder? Oil changes? Valve guide could be smoked, check it.
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Old 07-05-2013, 12:07 AM   #28
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Thanks for the responses!

GreaseMonkey I'll definitly do some measuring. The inside of the cylinder has scratching too, there are scratches similar to my piston, and lots of scratches everywhere, but not quite as deep, I'll load a pic of it tomorrow of mine but here is almost exactly what the cylinder looks like:



There is a lot of carbon all over the valve face and valves, I'll also post a pic of them.


concours, I agree I'll certainly have to do measuring at this point, it's just I thought with that amount of smoking it'd be obvious when I tore it down, like a completely messed up oil ring or something. But I'll get the tool and measure it like you guys stated, the manual has the specs I believe.

The cylinder isn't mud caked at all, nor is the bike really, I believe the failure was caused by overheating if I had to guess from overloading. The air filter looks great, its pretty clean actually. I don't know how often the oil was changed, but I believe it was changed regularly. I'll also check the valve guides.
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Old 07-05-2013, 06:27 AM   #29
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i would get a new piston as well as new rings, I've seen a lot worse. that looks like it's just due a rebuild to me. and unless you cleaned teh top of the piston off that's not a lot of carbon. i'm guessing this thing just started smoking like mad one day. I'm still sating rings, but I would look the valves over really well and do valve seals since you are there anyway.
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Old 07-05-2013, 08:08 PM   #30
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i would get a new piston as well as new rings, I've seen a lot worse. that looks like it's just due a rebuild to me. and unless you cleaned teh top of the piston off that's not a lot of carbon. i'm guessing this thing just started smoking like mad one day. I'm still sating rings, but I would look the valves over really well and do valve seals since you are there anyway.

Yes, thats what happened, it just started smoking like mad one day and they just quit using it and used other 4 wheelers, and it sat for about 2 years. Thats what I don't understand, I thought usually if say for example its the oil ring is the problem, it would be more gradual, like it'd start smoking more and more and burning more oil over time, not go from none to just blowing smoke like a steam train out of nowhere? This is why I thought if it was rings it'd be more obvious, like they'd be broken or stuck or something.

But it HAS to be the rings and or valves/the scratches. Your right, while I will do measuring to pin point the problem, I'll do the valves while I'm in there.

I didn't clean the piston, but I guess theres not that much because it didn't run much while it was smoking. Although the valves and head have a lot more carbon build up on them.
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