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Old 07-15-2013, 05:49 PM   #76
RedMenace
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Glue this to the inside of your visor and you should be fine.....

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Old 07-17-2013, 04:02 PM   #77
claude
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amazing Vernon
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Old 07-20-2013, 08:29 AM   #78
prsdrat
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Thanks Gents for this very informative discussion. I gave my old R60 to a
good friend a few years back. He now has restored it and I considered
reacquiring it(for a fair price) and hacking it. After reading this report, I
have decided to forgo this new skill set and stick to two wheels.
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Old 07-20-2013, 08:38 AM   #79
claude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prsdrat View Post
Thanks Gents for this very informative discussion. I gave my old R60 to a
good friend a few years back. He now has restored it and I considered
reacquiring it(for a fair price) and hacking it. After reading this report, I
have decided to forgo this new skill set and stick to two wheels.
I think most all here enjoy two wheels as well and three. Hope what was presented here so far was not taken by you as a negative. This are different on three but by the nature of the beasts are also safer overall.
No knocking 2 wheels at all but Sidecars do have many plusses that two wheels do not. With a sidecar there is No real concerns of gavel or slick road conditions. There seems to be less idiots pulling out in front of you on a sidecar outfit. The sidecar, on many bikes, can be removed and you still have the solo in your stable to ride. Sidecar, are a ton of fun and are quite safe. I hope that this discussion did not overstate some of their quirks in such a way as to turn you off to them.
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Old 07-20-2013, 05:58 PM   #80
haggis mctavish OP
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going in too hot

after decades of riding two wheels, apart from the consequences of other road users, my only real prospect of crashing was gravel, oil, or whatever taking out the front wheel.

a sidecar appealed as a means of removing this danger, more stability, more camping gear I could drag with me , including towing a trailer, and an ability to conquer gravel and dirt with a bit of security rather than fearing every gravel road with trepidation on 2 wheels

however 3 wheels while providing more in the way of stability also comes with a steep learning curve especially when testing the limits of the vehicle and your own abilities

maybe I am a slow learner or just getting old but I make a point of not jumping between 2 and 3 wheels, I either use 2 for a period of time or 3 for a period of time so different are the skills required

I find that it takes an hour or so before I am back in the groove riding the hack, but having said that the hack gives me more fun probably because I am learning new skills albeit slowly

claudes post about his ride on the limit was an eye opener as to the skills and technique required whilst riding at 100 per cent and I realize that I ride at 60 or 70 per cent most of the time but that I am still learning at that low level.

as an example my hack has a sidecar brake but ive decided that it doesn't fit into my keep it simple regime and I don't use it at all now

a lot of riding techniques need relearning on three wheels and I think this relearning is the greatest challenge but at the same time provides the most satisfying aspect of hack riding.
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Old 07-20-2013, 06:33 PM   #81
davebig
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Haggis I don't think it's that difficult, only once have I found myself pulling in the wrong side of the bar trying to get a better lean angle.I've ridden about 10k miles this year and all on a sidecar, I'm trying to bring my skill level up before I start switching back and forth.
On the other hand I've never found gravel roads that intimidating on 2 wheels after picking myself up off them several times, ridding them is a skill easily acquired.
I'm a bit surprised that right turns in a sidecar are actually easier than lefts (US Version) and the whole thing gets easier everytrip as I get more experience.DB
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Old 07-21-2013, 01:47 PM   #82
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I interchange between 2 and 3 daily and have had no adverse reactions. Some days I will ride the R1100RS, 2 wheels, Ural and the R1150 GS sidecar rig all in the same day.

Back to what Claude said though I would hate for someone to take this discussion negatively and not ride sidecars because of it. I believe the learning curve is just as steep if not steeper for a 2 wheel novice. It is not that sidecar rigs are more dangerous or less dangerous than 2 wheels it is just that they are different. You are not going to go into a decreasing radius turn on 2 wheels and fare any better if you are too hot and or inexperienced. There are a lot of crossover techniques and a lot of unique techniques to each though and either is equally unforgiving of inattention. I personally have been riding motorcycles since I was about 8 years old and can not imagine not riding
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Old 07-21-2013, 03:47 PM   #83
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I interchange between a rigid and a leaner without problems. The rigid is a fluid drive Convert, i.e. no gear changing and the rear/car brakes where the clutch lever is on the leaner. By the time I've gone to the end of the block, i've been reminded which skill set to use.

One I have no reason to put any feet down at stops, the other I only need to move my right 8 inches to the running board of car and lean slightly that direction. Still no feet on ground.
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Old 07-21-2013, 03:51 PM   #84
claude
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Haggis my responses are within your text below.


Haggis McTavish wrote:
after decades of riding two wheels, apart from the consequences of other road users, my only real prospect of crashing was gravel, oil, or whatever taking out the front wheel.

These are concerns and are the culprit in many crashes.


Haggis McTavish wrote: a sidecar appealed as a means of removing this danger, more stability, more camping gear I could drag with me , including towing a trailer, and an ability to conquer gravel and dirt with a bit of security rather than fearing every gravel road with trepidation on 2 wheels

Yes, many concerns related to two wheels are not really much of a factor with a sidecar outfit.

Haggis McTavish wrote:however 3 wheels while providing more in the way of stability also comes with a steep learning curve especially when testing the limits of the vehicle and your own abilities.

Yes, there is a learning curve. I would not want to say it is 'steep' for a well balanced outfit. Testing and increasing your own abilities is a progressive thing and in time these skill levels will increase. This is a fact with two or three wheels and it totally is dependent upon how far one wishes to apply themselves. One can ride a two wheeler or a sidecar outfit for years and maybe never have an incident that would call upon a higher skill level than they have gotten to. That is not a bad thing. However the idea of upping the bar of one's skills is a good one as it puts more in your pocket to help prevent an incident due to running out of a personal skill package to pull from. This is true with two or three wheels or whatever. We can plan our actions but we cannot plan our reactions. Good reactions only come from practice. Practicing a little above our comfort zone a little at a time , SAFELY, will help our reserve of skill grow.

Haggis McTavish wrote: maybe I am a slow learner or just getting old but I make a point of not jumping between 2 and 3 wheels, I either use 2 for a period of time or 3 for a period of time so different are the skills required

I find that it takes an hour or so before I am back in the groove riding the hack, but having said that the hack gives me more fun probably because I am learning new skills albeit slowly

Learning is fun. We are all learning.

Haggis McTavish wrote: claudes post about his ride on the limit was an eye opener as to the skills and technique required whilst riding at 100 per cent and I realize that I ride at 60 or 70 per cent most of the time but that I am still learning at that low level.

Maybe I should not have posted that. It was a draft for a bit I did in Hack'd Magazine a few years back.

Haggis McTavish wrote: as an example my hack has a sidecar brake but ive decided that it doesn't fit into my keep it simple regime and I don't use it at all now

Outfits, most of them, will do okay with no sidecar brake. Some outfits will do much better without one than with one. If one learns to operate a sidecar rig without a brake they will have a better idea on whether they want one or not. We do sidecar brakes but do not push them on everyone who darkens our door. But that is another story.

Haggis McTavish wrote: a lot of riding techniques need relearning on three wheels and I think this relearning is the greatest challenge but at the same time provides the most satisfying aspect of hack riding.

Amen to that as learning is fun for us all. Sometimes I kinda wish that sidecar outfits were not compared to solo bikes so much. Any two track vehicle in no longer a single track vehicle! Constantly comparing the two is pretty much fruitless and can cause some confusion.
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Old 07-21-2013, 07:53 PM   #85
davebig
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[QUOTE
Amen to that as learning is fun for us all. Sometimes I kinda wish that sidecar outfits were not compared to solo bikes so much. Any two track vehicle in no longer a single track vehicle! Constantly comparing the two is pretty much fruitless and can cause some confusion. [/QUOTE]

Amen they are no longer motorcycles
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Old 07-21-2013, 08:50 PM   #86
kailuasurfer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claude View Post
Amen to that as learning is fun for us all. Sometimes I kinda wish that sidecar outfits were not compared to solo bikes so much. Any two track vehicle in no longer a single track vehicle! Constantly comparing the two is pretty much fruitless and can cause some confusion.
+1

Motorcycle is no longer one when a sidecar "accessory" is attached.
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Old 07-22-2013, 02:55 AM   #87
cleatusj
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Any two track vehicle in no longer a single track vehicle!

That does not say "no longer a motorcycle".

A rigid sidecar rig will no longer act or handle like a motorcycle, but a LEANER does still act the same and handle no differently. Counter steers and all else.
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Old 07-22-2013, 06:27 AM   #88
claude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleatusj View Post
Any two track vehicle in no longer a single track vehicle!

That does not say "no longer a motorcycle".

A rigid sidecar rig will no longer act or handle like a motorcycle, but a LEANER does still act the same and handle no differently. Counter steers and all else.
Okay cleatus you got me there ..lol.. .. Yes, a LEANER is a dual track vehicle that rides similar to a single track motorcycle. You countersteer like a bike except when they are all the way to the stops. You can drop them similar to a bike unlike a conventional sidecar. Yes, they are basically a solo bike with a wheel weight on one side. Some have a pendulum effect similar to a motorcycle with sidecar. Sorry but when talking sidecars we typically do not bring leaners into the fold. I think this discussion was directed to the much more conventional rigid sidecars.
Leaners are cool for what they are. Have ridden a few.
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Old 07-22-2013, 06:47 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claude View Post
Leaners are for people who can't ride a real sidecar outfit.
Fixamated for ya.
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Old 07-22-2013, 06:50 AM   #90
claude
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Tarka's post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by claude View Post
Leaners are for people who can't ride a real sidecar outfit.

Fixamated for ya.
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lol....Misquoted me a little Tarka? Actually I think leaners are cool but they are different for sure.
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