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Old 11-06-2013, 02:49 PM   #526
NLS
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Don't overcomplicate things.
I am ok with the joke.
I like KTM. It's prety much one of the few brands I respect nowadays.

Right now I am not taking beer offers, I have have painful heartburn.
Also not easy to laugh, being in grandmother's funeral yesterday.

BTW, got back from the 300km trip in a storm. I was the fastest thing on the road (were is that guy that will tell me that I should be ashamed?)... Realized once more why BMW GS is BMW GS.
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Old 11-06-2013, 02:52 PM   #527
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Originally Posted by NLS View Post
Don't overcomplicate things.
I am ok with the joke.
I like KTM. It's prety much one of the few brands I respect nowadays.

Right now I am not taking beer offers, I have have painful heartburn.
Also not easy to laugh, being in grandmother's funeral yesterday.

BTW, got back from the 300km trip in a storm. I was the fastest thing on the road (were is that guy that will tell me that I should be ashamed?)... Realized once more why BMW GS is BMW GS.
My condolences...mine are all long gone..

Get the reflux looked at, can lead to bigger things..
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Old 11-06-2013, 07:50 PM   #528
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Originally Posted by WildAnCrazymtl View Post
The bike has just been redesigned, i wonder why they did not route the exhaust under the seat or somewhere the panniers could be symetrical and of equal size...
Underseat exhausts have their own set of thorny issues. Today's bikes require very big mufflers to meet noise regulations and that space has to come from somewhere. BMW decided a long time ago that making one pannier slightly smaller is a better option than any of the alternatives. It's not just BMW.... many other bikes are the same.

- Mark
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Old 11-07-2013, 01:15 AM   #529
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Originally Posted by markjenn View Post
Underseat exhausts have their own set of thorny issues. Today's bikes require very big mufflers to meet noise regulations and that space has to come from somewhere. BMW decided a long time ago that making one pannier slightly smaller is a better option than any of the alternatives. It's not just BMW.... many other bikes are the same.

- Mark
Such as the new KTM!
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Old 11-07-2013, 01:31 AM   #530
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Quote:
Full Options No panier
R 1200 GS Adventure EUR 16 690,00
Pack confort EUR 540,00
Pack touring EUR 1 875,00
Pack dynamic EUR 1 250,00

Options
Système d'alarme EUR 230,00

Advantage pack (confort)
ZL3 EUR -65,00
Advantage pack (dynamic)
ZR4 EUR -150,00

Total : EUR 20.370
Just for comparisans sake: The price over here was for a 2013 GS full option:
19792,01 Euros

Included: 3 panniers and tankbag (1340€) and a 3% discount
Excluded crash bars and aux lights which are included in a GS with this spec.

So ausstatung it is €19778 for a 2013 GS (with bmw crashbars and axu lights €750, and without panniers, tankbag and discount) vs €20370 for a 2014 GSA.

This (for the belgian market) equals a aditional cost of 3% for the GSA compared to the GS.
My calculations are based upon the pricing for the 2013 GS and not the 2014 GS.
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Old 11-07-2013, 06:22 AM   #531
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Originally Posted by markjenn View Post
Underseat exhausts have their own set of thorny issues. Today's bikes require very big mufflers to meet noise regulations and that space has to come from somewhere. BMW decided a long time ago that making one pannier slightly smaller is a better option than any of the alternatives. It's not just BMW.... many other bikes are the same.

- Mark
I saw KTM went the same route, I understand your point, but I was really hoping for a little more effort form these companies, after all we are paying close to 20 grand or more, for the bike, factoy farkels and a few items promoting their logo. Whatever my choice next year, I will look into lowering the exhaust to accomadate two equal and symetric 45 liter panniers.
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Old 11-07-2013, 06:29 AM   #532
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Originally Posted by WildAnCrazymtl View Post
I saw KTM went the same route, I understand your point, but I was really hoping for a little more effort form these companies, after all we are paying close to 20 grand or more, for the bike, factoy farkels and a few items promoting their logo. Whatever my choice next year, I will look into lowering the exhaust to accomadate two equal and symetric 45 liter panniers.
Not sure why it is so important to you, but I am sure if putting the exhaust under the seat were so simple BMW would have done it. There are many issues with an adventure bike of a reasonable ride height, trying to put the exhaust under the seat. If you get a BMW I wish you luck with that idea.

Jim

PS Yes, I know a SA company Haitech, made one for the R1200GS, but it was far from perfect.
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Old 11-07-2013, 06:35 AM   #533
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Originally Posted by RichBMW View Post
Such as the new KTM!
Yea, when the new GS came out, I saw the exhaust was disapointed and looked to defect to KTM. They, IMHO fucked up too. It is an adventure bike, they should know people want to put panniers to go around the world, or to starbucks, whatever. It is beyond me that a team of engineres can't find a solution to that problem, in the price point, aside from a big f'en dent in one of the panniers or offset the panniers to where the bike looks like a stupid afterthought with them on. C'mon man,

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Old 11-07-2013, 06:54 AM   #534
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Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
Not sure why it is so important to you, but I am sure if putting the exhaust under the seat were so simple BMW would have done it. There are many issues with an adventure bike of a reasonable ride height, trying to put the exhaust under the seat. If you get a BMW I wish you luck with that idea.

Jim

PS Yes, I know a SA company Haitech, made one for the R1200GS, but it was far from perfect.
I guess I just like the look of things being equal and symetrical. It looks like the things were planed out and not an afterthought. I gueess I would trade ride height but I am 6'2 with long legs... I am no enginere here but my simple solution would be to have a dual exhaust with two mufflers one on each side, small close and tight to the bike, intead of the big IMHO horrific lookin can on one side.

Haitech, if I am not mistaken wanted your first born for that system, i would much prefer to lower the factory muffler, or something smaller under two equal and symetrical panniers.

I love my GS but hate the look from the back as it is. The panniers are of equal distance to the sides of the motorcycle and are of equal width at the top of the panniers. However, the left pannier has a horriffic cut out for the muffler. I would not have put them on if thay were offset to one side...

If you got a better idea...
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"A good thing in a bad place, is still a good thing ! " Us.

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Old 11-07-2013, 07:24 AM   #535
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A GS is a GS. They are built to be durable, rugged, and capable. Looks have never been their forte, though the looks do seem to grow on you. The GS was never intended t be a show stopping beauty, their charm comes from their ability to get you almost anywhere you want to go in relative comfort, and with relative reliability. They can sustain multiple naps, handle surprisingly well for such a tall heavy beast, and can carry a but load of stuff. I remember the first time I saw a modern GS. My initial impression was, "What the hell was BMW thinking. "They take one of the prettiest bikes on the road and do that to it." Well, fast forward a few years and I've owned two. The looks grow on you, and the ride will sell even the staunchest of critics. I now consider them to be one of the prettiest bikes on the road. Think of them as a 12 beer girl, not the prettiest prize in the bar room but once you ride it you are sold. Those quirky rear bags are all part of the charm. There to be practical, not beautiful.
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Old 11-07-2013, 07:51 AM   #536
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Originally Posted by WildAnCrazymtl View Post
I guess I just like the look of things being equal and symetrical. It looks like the things were planed out and not an afterthought. I gueess I would trade ride height but I am 6'2 with long legs... I am no enginere here but my simple solution would be to have a dual exhaust with two mufflers one on each side, small close and tight to the bike, intead of the big IMHO horrific lookin can on one side.

Haitech, if I am not mistaken wanted your first born for that system, i would much prefer to lower the factory muffler, or something smaller under two equal and symetrical panniers.

I love my GS but hate the look from the back as it is. The panniers are of equal distance to the sides of the motorcycle and are of equal width at the top of the panniers. However, the left pannier has a horriffic cut out for the muffler. I would not have put them on if thay were offset to one side...

If you got a better idea...
Adding a second muffler would add cost and weight. Don't forget there much be a Cat as well. A second muffler would mean cut-outs on both sides, so same effect. Ride height has always been one of the issues with the GS. Lots of short people want to be able to ride them, so they need to accommodate both tall and short, and extra short with a "low frame". None of this works well with an under tail exhaust, especially considering manufacturing costs for the variety of configurations needed.

The single sided swing arm tends to complicate dual exhausts as well. Dropping the exhaust, as Jesse does, is one solution, but it creates its own set of issues.

IF there was a big demand for an under tail exhaust an aftermarket manufacturer, or several, would make them. So obviously not.

I know what you are saying, and I agree, for looks purposes, but I am more about functionality.

Jim
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Old 11-07-2013, 12:27 PM   #537
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Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
Adding a second muffler would add cost and weight. Don't forget there much be a Cat as well. A second muffler would mean cut-outs on both sides, so same effect. Ride height has always been one of the issues with the GS. Lots of short people want to be able to ride them, so they need to accommodate both tall and short, and extra short with a "low frame". None of this works well with an under tail exhaust, especially considering manufacturing costs for the variety of configurations needed.

The single sided swing arm tends to complicate dual exhausts as well. Dropping the exhaust, as Jesse does, is one solution, but it creates its own set of issues.

IF there was a big demand for an under tail exhaust an aftermarket manufacturer, or several, would make them. So obviously not.

I know what you are saying, and I agree, for looks purposes, but I am more about functionality.

Jim
I invisioned the two mufflers small enough and tight enough to the side of the bike as to not need cut outs, or they would be so small as to not really affect the size of the bags... Kinda like the KTM 990 if I' not mistaken.... It would also be more pleasing to the eye to have both sides symetrical and identical....

You mention dropping the exhaust creates its own set of issues... Like what? . This is my plan so far...
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"A good thing in a bad place, is still a good thing ! " Us.

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Old 11-07-2013, 12:36 PM   #538
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Originally Posted by WildAnCrazymtl View Post
You mention dropping the exhaust creates its own set of issues... Like what? . This is my plan so far...
Well, the obvious answer is increased risk of contact with the ground. That's not to say that with careful routing you can't make it work for most real-world applications. But put low exhausts on a bike like the GS and folks would be screaming bloody murder.

The problem with two smaller mufflers rather than one big one is that the smaller mufflers don't end up being much smaller. You get noise control with muffler volume and a single big can does double duty by silencing both cylinders. Build a dual exhaust that meets the same noise requirements and you end up with big mufflers on both sides and pannier cutouts in both bags. And more weight. Say what you want about GS's being heavy, but BMW's attention to weight control on this bike has been pretty amazing and deserves some accolades.

I think what we're all saying is that while symmetric bags/exhausts look good, it brings up a bunch of compromises that most think are bad tradeoffs. You may not like BMW's engineering tradeoff, but things are not this way because of poor planning or because they haven't thought things out carefully.

- Mark

markjenn screwed with this post 11-07-2013 at 12:46 PM
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Old 11-07-2013, 12:43 PM   #539
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Originally Posted by Wdwrkr View Post
A GS is a GS. They are built to be durable, rugged, and capable. Looks have never been their forte, though the looks do seem to grow on you. The GS was never intended t be a show stopping beauty, their charm comes from their ability to get you almost anywhere you want to go in relative comfort, and with relative reliability. They can sustain multiple naps, handle surprisingly well for such a tall heavy beast, and can carry a but load of stuff. I remember the first time I saw a modern GS. My initial impression was, "What the hell was BMW thinking. "They take one of the prettiest bikes on the road and do that to it." Well, fast forward a few years and I've owned two. The looks grow on you, and the ride will sell even the staunchest of critics. I now consider them to be one of the prettiest bikes on the road. Think of them as a 12 beer girl, not the prettiest prize in the bar room but once you ride it you are sold. Those quirky rear bags are all part of the charm. There to be practical, not beautiful.
Agreed! Funny story, we tried to tour on my ten year old ZX11 then a ZRX 1200 and a few others and never did much more than a few days riding.... My wife saw long way down and showed me the show. My first reaction was I would not be caught dead on that ugly thing but it looks tuff as nails they keep falling.... At the bike show we saw a GS sat on it and she fell in love. First time she could see the road over my shoulder.... Said it reminded her of me... Big, heavy, dependable and kind odd looking but you will grow to love it, kinda like I did you... A few months latter we end up buying one... I love it in every way except the look of the bags from the back.... I would like to fix that next time around....
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"Ride it like you stole it, then do the same to me ! " Her.
"A good thing in a bad place, is still a good thing ! " Us.

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DRZ400 03
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Old 11-07-2013, 12:52 PM   #540
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I think what we're all saying is that while symmetric bags/exhausts looks good, it brings up a bunch of compromises that most think are bad tradeoffs. You may not like BMW's engineering tradeoff, but things not this way because of poor planning or because they haven't thought things out carefully.
I agree. IMHO the notched out asymmetric BMW/Zegas don't look that bad (way better than having the offset full size pannier option) — best of all the notch encourages you to carry LESS crap on the trip not more.
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