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Old 07-28-2013, 11:39 AM   #121
Jabba
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I do not- believe I read somewhere that the perceived difference was not born out on the dyno?
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Old 07-28-2013, 12:05 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by Jabba View Post
Have you looked at the torque graphs on both engines?
No. I think what I've seen before is that with same displacement you can only do that much keeping low-end torque and at the same time maximize top-end horsepower...
Again only from reading I'm getting the impression that the new engine is more streamlined, not bad, just moving a bit away from having that unique character...I know nothing keeps progress from happening.
Looking forward to BMW continually improving the new platform.
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Old 07-28-2013, 02:19 PM   #123
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The "missing torque" discussion has come up about a billion times. I'd say by my highly tuned ass-o-graph that it doesn't feel weak down low.

In fact, I was on a trio down Skyline and the BRP with a few guys, one of which riding a Conny 14, and rarely did I ever rev it out. The bike certainly allows it but it still has all the wonderful torque to cruise along at a brisk pace at low revs. The guy on the 14 even made a handful of comments how he was really having to row the gears to keep up which is saying something considering I rarely shifted at all.

Now it does feel like a bit less just because the motor will keep pulling hard where the old kind of fizzled out but my riding habits haven't changed since getting the new GS and it pulls harder than before without me revving it more.
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Old 07-28-2013, 03:30 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by oz97tj View Post
The "missing torque" discussion has come up about a billion times. I'd say by my highly tuned ass-o-graph that it doesn't feel weak down low.

In fact, I was on a trio down Skyline and the BRP with a few guys, one of which riding a Conny 14, and rarely did I ever rev it out. The bike certainly allows it but it still has all the wonderful torque to cruise along at a brisk pace at low revs. The guy on the 14 even made a handful of comments how he was really having to row the gears to keep up which is saying something considering I rarely shifted at all.

Now it does feel like a bit less just because the motor will keep pulling hard where the old kind of fizzled out but my riding habits haven't changed since getting the new GS and it pulls harder than before without me revving it more.
Cool, sounds great, now I want it (in white so the wife won't notice a thing).
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Old 07-28-2013, 03:31 PM   #125
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Cool, sounds great, now I want it (in white so the wife won't notice a thing).
I think the dealership may be able to help.

I went from black to white, and I still doubt my wife would have noticed had I not told her.
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Old 07-28-2013, 04:08 PM   #126
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I went from blue to white yet my wife says the bike looks the same.

I agree with you on the torque issue. The new bike feels like it has MORE torque down low when compared to my '05. Maybe the camhead was better..
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Old 07-28-2013, 07:45 PM   #127
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Artist rendering of the 2014 GSA?

Found it on the internet today...


[IMG][/IMG]
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Old 07-28-2013, 08:02 PM   #128
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http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=900435
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Old 07-28-2013, 08:40 PM   #129
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Would love to see those. Do you happen to have a source handy?
The torque graphs/charts were posted in the big water cooled thread back right around roll out of the new bikes...it's there if you want to look/search for it. Bottom line is the new GS has more torque everywhere on the curve than the camhead...some places a little more and some places a lot more. Also you will find a torque curve from one of the magazines comparing the WGS to all of the competition and the new GS blows them all away, especially in the area of low end torque.
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:02 PM   #130
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Torque

I got a chance to ride the new GS in Salem. The 20mile ride was a combo of in town with traffic lights, then freeway and then some windy roads before back into town and more traffic lights. I think the off ideal acceleration in town is good and in the windy roads it was also good. I did not feel that I needed to rev this motor to make it work. I like this motor better than my 09GSA. There's a different engine vibration between 4-5k rpms that is different than my 09.
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Old 07-29-2013, 12:42 AM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EJ_92606 View Post
Bottom line is the new GS has more torque everywhere on the curve than the camhead...some places a little more and some places a lot more.
This is the one I have found comparing the 2012 and 2013 GS

http://www.motorcycle.com/gallery/ga...DI_NOISSES_PMT



But under 5000rpm doesn't match EJ_92606's comment, is there a different graph? Was this a preproduction model? Or is torque pretty much the same up to 5000 rpm (even less a very low rpms)?
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Old 07-29-2013, 06:32 AM   #132
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Looks like they're essentially identical up to 5000 rpm or so- but what the curve doesn't show is how quickly each bike can rev to 5K

Who's willing to do some side by side roll-on tests between the two? We need info, dammit!
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Old 07-29-2013, 07:48 AM   #133
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I'll play. Who has a camhead nearby?
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Old 07-29-2013, 08:22 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by Jabba View Post
Looks like they're essentially identical up to 5000 rpm or so- but what the curve doesn't show is how quickly each bike can rev to 5K
It also can't tell you about fueling down low and the effect of the heavier fly wheel on the old engine. The new engine I had another test ride on last weekend vibrates a lot more than the Camhead (that is comparing a demo 2013 R1200GS to my wife's 2013 R1200R DOHC engine which has absolutely NO vibration between 60 and 75 on the freeway), it is less drivable in very slow speed maneuvering, it feels like it has less USABLE torque down low than my Tiger or the "old" Camhead.

Once you get past a certain point in the rev range it goes like hell though. I think a lot of this is the fuel mapping and ride modes - I disliked "dynamic", all it did was making the bike snatchy and hard to control when going slower, especially together with the light throttle application. Rain is a well done mode though, soft throttle application, easy to control. Road is okay, but still a bit too aggressive for my taste.

I think BMW really wanted to show the power of the bike and overdid the riding modes towards a dynamic feel at the cost of control and a relaxed feeling. Not a good idea in my opinion.

For me, I like the old engine more than the new one. As a package overall, not certain.
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Old 07-29-2013, 11:09 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by cug View Post
It also can't tell you about fueling down low and the effect of the heavier fly wheel on the old engine. The new engine I had another test ride on last weekend vibrates a lot more than the Camhead (that is comparing a demo 2013 R1200GS to my wife's 2013 R1200R DOHC engine which has absolutely NO vibration between 60 and 75 on the freeway), it is less drivable in very slow speed maneuvering, it feels like it has less USABLE torque down low than my Tiger or the "old" Camhead.

Once you get past a certain point in the rev range it goes like hell though. I think a lot of this is the fuel mapping and ride modes - I disliked "dynamic", all it did was making the bike snatchy and hard to control when going slower, especially together with the light throttle application. Rain is a well done mode though, soft throttle application, easy to control. Road is okay, but still a bit too aggressive for my taste.

I think BMW really wanted to show the power of the bike and overdid the riding modes towards a dynamic feel at the cost of control and a relaxed feeling. Not a good idea in my opinion.

For me, I like the old engine more than the new one. As a package overall, not certain.
I disagree with everything you've said, apart from the "going like hell" part, which it does, however, in the right gear for the revs, its instant.

There's far too many critics on here that try to sum this bike up after a 20 mile test ride.
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