ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Battle scooters
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-10-2014, 05:35 PM   #1
nick5446 OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Portland, OR
Oddometer: 71
4 Speed Honda Trail 90 Shifting Question

Hi All,

I have a new (to me) 1970 CT90. It's got the 4 speed which I am told (and believe) has a 1-up, 3-down shift pattern. This is all well and good, except, if this is correct, than I have a problem.

Let me set the scene:
- I shift up to 1st to get going and everything is perfectly fine.
- I gain some speed and shift down to get to 2nd, except I have to click down twice, because clicking only once lands me in neutral. Even with practice and different methods this is how it goes. Ok, not a huge deal.
- I gain some more speed and shift down again to get to 3rd. Perfectly fine.
- I gain even more speed and shift down again to get to 4th. Nothing, no more gears.

So, if this bike is in fact a 1-up 3-down 4 speed I have a significant problem. Either I am missing 4th gear, or I am missing 2nd gear.

Anyone else have similar experiences or have any ideas? Besides this the bike runs great. It smokes a little, but no crunching or anything in the gearbox. Honestly, if I hadn't been told it was a 4 speed and the speedometer didn't imply that it was, I would just assume it was a 3 speed and be happy with it. I'm going to have to look at the serial numbers to see if this is the original engine or if it's possibly from a different year.

Also - do the 4 speeds also have the hi/lo option? How do I fiddle with that?

Thanks!!
nick5446 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2014, 06:34 PM   #2
drtyrrel
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2013
Location: Schroon Lake NY
Oddometer: 119
Hi Nick

Neutral is all the way up and you step down ( with toe ) to shift to 1st then the same until 4th . So it's neutral all the way up and 4 down. To put it in low-range put it on the centerstand in neutral and spin the tire as you move the lever. It changes to a smaller sprocket in the front like shifting a bicycle.

Darren
drtyrrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2014, 08:49 PM   #3
Offcenter
On The Road Again!
 
Offcenter's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2012
Location: Northern New Jersey
Oddometer: 236
I agree. On that year, neutral is at the top. All gears are down.
I have a '77 CT90. It is the opposite. Neutral is at the bottom on mine
and all gears are up.
No CTs that I know of ever had neutral between first and second like
most other bikes.
__________________
George, high in the hills of Jersey!

77 Honda CT-90
76 Honda GL-1000
Offcenter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2014, 10:35 PM   #4
nick5446 OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Portland, OR
Oddometer: 71
I don't want to call you guys liars because I'm sure you know more about these than me, but I've ridden it about a dozen times and I really don't think neutral is on top. Any other years my motor could be from where this would make sense?
nick5446 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2014, 11:33 PM   #5
redprimo
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2011
Location: central coast of California
Oddometer: 388
If the number on your engine is plus or minus 30 from your vin # then you have the original engine, they are never an exact match.

As others have said your Trans is neutral at the top and then 4 down. If you are hitting neutral any where in between gears it could be something as simple as your technique. You have to give it a very deliberate sharp shift, almost a quick stomp. If you outside and hold the shifter down you will be in neutral, it actually shifts when you release the sifter, out rather that's how the clutch is engaged.

Other things that can affect the shifting are oil level and quality. without detailing this into an oil thread these bikes do really well on shell rotella synthetic oil.

If its still hitting neutral between gears it could still be something simple like a loose shift drum stopper plate our a broken shift drum supper. At this point head over to the ct90 forum on yucu. They are very helpful and pretty friendly.
redprimo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 07:49 AM   #6
windburn
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: The Willamette Valley, Oregon
Oddometer: 1,187
Faults nutural

Every time you shift the toe lever down you are going into a nutural briefly while it shifts. Like a clutch on a standard transmission. You are finding a faults nutural between gears. It is likely that your clutch plate needs needs adjustment. Your shifting pattern is n-1-2-3-4 from front lever up to down. You have a wet clutch that is lubed by the engine oil.
Put the bike on the center stand. tap the rear shifting lever down three times you should be feel nutural by free wheeling the back drive wheel without the engine running.
windburn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 11:43 AM   #7
nick5446 OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Portland, OR
Oddometer: 71
Finally checked the engine number and it starts with CM91…I guess it's out of a Cub…? Time to research those...
nick5446 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 12:06 PM   #8
YamaGeek
Ancient trailbike padwan
 
YamaGeek's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: western oregon
Oddometer: 6,083
Well either the old engine is missing a pin in the shifter drum for fourth, or it's very similar to the C-102 OHV hondas with their 1-Up 2-down, three speed transmission. My 50 cc Cub's original engine is exactly like your description, and of course maybe someone rebuilt this old engine from leftovers of other Cub engines?
__________________
____________________________________________
We're here because of a love most exestential. (toothy)


YamaGeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 12:34 PM   #9
drtyrrel
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2013
Location: Schroon Lake NY
Oddometer: 119
I think the 70cc Passports had 3 speed transmissions ?
drtyrrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 01:20 PM   #10
YamaGeek
Ancient trailbike padwan
 
YamaGeek's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: western oregon
Oddometer: 6,083
Most of the 'C' 'CA' and 'CM' models from 90 cc's, under had 3 speeds.
__________________
____________________________________________
We're here because of a love most exestential. (toothy)


YamaGeek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 01:40 PM   #11
eric1514
(R)
 
eric1514's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: AZ
Oddometer: 494
Your shifter should be a long affair with a pad for your toe and one for your heel. There is no "up". You push down with your heel over and over until you reach neutral. You can't over do it. You should have a neutral indicator light at that point. Push down once with your toe and that's first. Push down again, that's second, toe down again, third, once more for 4th. Heel down now will get you back to third. And so forth.

With the bike in neutral, running or not, using a 9/16 or 14mm wrench, turn the head of the low/hi bolt until it stops, about 30 degrees. In lo, you won't go very fast, but you can climb trees.
eric1514 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 02:43 PM   #12
nick5446 OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Portland, OR
Oddometer: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric1514 View Post
Your shifter should be a long affair with a pad for your toe and one for your heel. There is no "up". You push down with your heel over and over until you reach neutral. You can't over do it. You should have a neutral indicator light at that point. Push down once with your toe and that's first. Push down again, that's second, toe down again, third, once more for 4th. Heel down now will get you back to third. And so forth.

With the bike in neutral, running or not, using a 9/16 or 14mm wrench, turn the head of the low/hi bolt until it stops, about 30 degrees. In lo, you won't go very fast, but you can climb trees.
Yeah I've only got the toe shifter, not a heel/toe shifter. I have a neutral light, but I've only seen it come on once, so I'm not sure how reliable it is.

I assume I'm in "hi" right now (if I have that option) because my top speed is around 40 in top gear (who knows what gear that is though).
nick5446 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 03:51 PM   #13
eric1514
(R)
 
eric1514's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: AZ
Oddometer: 494
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick5446 View Post
Yeah I've only got the toe shifter, not a heel/toe shifter. I have a neutral light, but I've only seen it come on once, so I'm not sure how reliable it is.

I assume I'm in "hi" right now (if I have that option) because my top speed is around 40 in top gear (who knows what gear that is though).
If you're doin' 40, you're in 4th and HI. You should have a small pointy indicator down near the hi/lo nut and the case should have a casting mark telling you where you are. The 1980 model was the only version without the hi/lo option

Try and locate a heel/toe shifter. Shifting a CT90 is not a delicate maneuver. You are disengaging the clutch and shifting gears and unless you are deliberate, you find a lot of neutrals.

If this thing has sat for a while, the neutral light may become more reliable, but not if your battery is weak or not there.
eric1514 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 05:11 PM   #14
nick5446 OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Portland, OR
Oddometer: 71
Guessing someone dumped in a used 3 speed motor from a Cub. I'll post up some pics momentarily.
nick5446 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2014, 11:37 AM   #15
nick5446 OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Portland, OR
Oddometer: 71
Here are those pictures. Pretty sure it's a 90cc Cub motor…













nick5446 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 02:22 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014