ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > The perfect line and other riding myths
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-07-2013, 08:34 PM   #1
SportsGuy OP
icanhazdirt?
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: redmond wa
Oddometer: 538
WTF is with the "touchy throttle" responses lately?

Don't get me wrong...both bikes I own now are "throttle by wire", if you will, so I *understand* the basis for people responding in threads with comments like "the bike sux b/c the throttle is too touchy", etc.

But holy shit, EVERY bike is different, so YOU have to adapt to EVERY bike that's new to you.

Now, before I make this next statement, so thoughts:

1 - I am by no means the best rider around, nor do I claim super-human skills on or off road.
2 - I have taken several on and off road training classes, which did teach me a few things.

So...

Maybe these people are simply lacking some skill?

I don't really believe that in the vast majority of cases. In most cases, I think its a simple matter of not liking change. THAT is pretty normal for all of us in many cases over time.

But, I do wonder about some people...

EVERY class I've taken, and thus every subsequent ride I've taken, I've learned about an used this little thing called the clutch.

On road its pretty straight forward, but hit the dirt and things DO change, so using that clutch more solves a LOT of problems.

When people complain about slow speed throttle twitchiness, it makes me wonder if those people are using the clutch effectively? I have to admit, here, that plenty of times I'm lurchy and NOT smooth on my bikes, and its due, at least 50% of the time to either my clutch work or not paying attention to throttle control.

Yes, newer bikes with throttle by wire can require some changes in approach. Yep, I agree they can have touchier throttles, BUT to me that's just something I need to adjust to - like the new seat, the new windscreen, and new bend in the handlebars, the new grips, he new vibes, etc.

From where I sit, I'll happily take the benefits inherent with throttle by wire technology. If it means I need to exercise more control over my right wrist and work the clutch in different conditions, then so be it. Happy to adjust for the benefits of new technology. (And I don't just mean the immediate benefit son a given machine, I mean in the overall moving forward of technology.)

My intent here is "observation", not "judgment", so if you find your nostrils flaring, your blood pressure rising and your anger peaking, well, that's something you'll will need to deal with. ;) I'm not intending to single anyone out personally.
SportsGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 09:01 PM   #2
Albie
Kool Aid poisoner
 
Albie's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: NWA
Oddometer: 9,252
All I know is pretty much all throttles work the same when you're either WFO or shutting it down. So I don't have an issue with twitchiness.
__________________
Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun.

Another day, another foot injury!
Albie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 09:10 PM   #3
SportsGuy OP
icanhazdirt?
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: redmond wa
Oddometer: 538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Albie View Post
All I know is pretty much all throttles work the same when you're either WFO or shutting it down. So I don't have an issue with twitchiness.
Interesting approach - so you just avoid the middle ground completely! Efficient!
SportsGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 04:35 AM   #4
concours
WFO for 41 years
 
concours's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Kensington, NH USA
Oddometer: 5,387
Quote:
Originally Posted by Albie View Post
All I know is pretty much all throttles work the same when you're either WFO or shutting it down. So I don't have an issue with twitchiness.
+1
Made for an exciting test ride... Wheelying the Triumph Rocket III in front of the dealership
Seriously, the ride by wire throttle response can be engineered any way you want. Too gradual and it would feel "pokey", experienced riders would be disappointed. People always want to feel like "Ricky Racer", whether bikes, cars, ATV's, sleds, etc. It may not always be best for everyday use, but it's market driven.
OP, learn to adapt. Crowd the switchgear with your thumb, or use the bar end weight as a "damper" for your hand movement. My Tiger 1050 has a snatchy low end... IF your course with your inputs. Be smooth and it's a tamed beast.
__________________
Too much is just barely enough.....
concours is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 09:21 AM   #5
WormShanks
b00b
 
WormShanks's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2010
Location: NW
Oddometer: 347
Like anything, there are good implementations of throttle by wire and there are bad implementations of throttle by wire. I prefer the good ones.
__________________

Ridden: AF AM AW AU AT AZ BS BH BD BB BY BW BV BR IO BN BG BF BI KH CM CA CZ DK SV GQ ER EE ET FK GI GR GP VA HN HK HU IS IN ID IR IQ KI KP KG LA LV LB LU NR NP NL AN NC NZ NI NE NO OM PK PR QA RE RO RU RW LC VC WS SM ST TM TC TV UG UA AE GB US UY UZ VU YE
WormShanks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 10:53 AM   #6
SportsGuy OP
icanhazdirt?
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: redmond wa
Oddometer: 538
Quote:
Originally Posted by concours View Post
+1
Made for an exciting test ride... Wheelying the Triumph Rocket III in front of the dealership
Seriously, the ride by wire throttle response can be engineered any way you want. Too gradual and it would feel "pokey", experienced riders would be disappointed. People always want to feel like "Ricky Racer", whether bikes, cars, ATV's, sleds, etc. It may not always be best for everyday use, but it's market driven.
OP, learn to adapt. Crowd the switchgear with your thumb, or use the bar end weight as a "damper" for your hand movement. My Tiger 1050 has a snatchy low end... IF your course with your inputs. Be smooth and it's a tamed beast.
Obviously I wasn't clear - I'm not complaining about it myself - in fact, I do state I prefer it and KNOW I need to adapt. I'm shocked to read so many OTHERS here and in other forums, bring this point up negatively and use it to bash solid bikes. ;)
SportsGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 11:43 AM   #7
scottrnelson
Team Orange
 
scottrnelson's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: Folsom, CA
Oddometer: 1,426
My 2008 KTM 990 Adventure isn't throttle by wire, but it's touchy in the transition between closed throttle and opening it a crack. Yes, I can make up for it by using the clutch, but it's still annoying. I've owned 20 other bikes that didn't have that problem, or at least could be easily adjusted to fix the issue.

I shouldn't have to slip the clutch in EVERY slow corner (i.e., under 20 mph).
__________________
__Scott R. Nelson, 2008 KTM 990 Adventure, 2001 Honda XR650L, Folsom, CA
scottrnelson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 11:44 AM   #8
SkiFastBadly
A beer? Yes, please
 
SkiFastBadly's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: Woodinville, WA
Oddometer: 1,522
I own three bikes, and among them I've done something like 90K miles in the past 9 years. So I may not be an expert or by some people's definition even an experienced rider.

I've been sniffing around trying to decide if to replace my Uly, and if so, with what. I have either test ridden or swapped with a buddy the following bikes:
KTM 990 SMT
Triumph 800 Roadie
BMW GS 1200
Yamaha Super Tenere
Triumph 1050 Tiger
Triumph 1200 Tiger Explorer (twice)

All pretty interesting bikes with different characteristics.

Having said all that, the first time I rode the TEX the throttle was so twitchy that hitting a bump on the road made my wrist move enough to cause the bike to accelerate. It was scary, and I cannot imagine being on the pegs on that thing. The second ride, no problem, and I understand that it was re-mapped.

So in my opinion there is definitely such a thing as a poorly designed/configured fly by wire throttle.

And since this is the internet, you can take my word as gospel.
__________________
The crows seemed to be calling his name, thought Caw.

2008 Buell Ulysses
2008 Triumph Scrambler
2004 HD Heritage Softail
SkiFastBadly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 12:35 PM   #9
SportsGuy OP
icanhazdirt?
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: redmond wa
Oddometer: 538
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiFastBadly View Post
I own three bikes, and among them I've done something like 90K miles in the past 9 years. So I may not be an expert or by some people's definition even an experienced rider.

I've been sniffing around trying to decide if to replace my Uly, and if so, with what. I have either test ridden or swapped with a buddy the following bikes:
KTM 990 SMT
Triumph 800 Roadie
BMW GS 1200
Yamaha Super Tenere
Triumph 1050 Tiger
Triumph 1200 Tiger Explorer (twice)

All pretty interesting bikes with different characteristics.

Having said all that, the first time I rode the TEX the throttle was so twitchy that hitting a bump on the road made my wrist move enough to cause the bike to accelerate. It was scary, and I cannot imagine being on the pegs on that thing. The second ride, no problem, and I understand that it was re-mapped.

So in my opinion there is definitely such a thing as a poorly designed/configured fly by wire throttle.

And since this is the internet, you can take my word as gospel.
And having just ridden one back to back with my Tenere, I can refute your claims! I rode the Tex, on the pegs, and didn't have this experience - this bike was pre-flash, too, so this is a you & me thing - meaning, I think, different people make a difference in the equation. :)

I LOVED the feel of the throttle and engine in the TEX, but not the huge price... :(

Still, the point here is touchy throttles, and here's a perfect case where one person experiences one thing, and a different person experiences something different.
SportsGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 01:10 PM   #10
DC2wheels
Castle Anthrax troll
 
DC2wheels's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: N.H.
Oddometer: 2,438
I think this is what you are describing.

DISCLAIMER, I am not the smoothest rider out there but have lots of miles in the saddle and many of those are 2-up.

4 years ago I got some stupid bug up my backside and bought a new C-14 Concours. Great engine power, just OK ergo-wise for me but the throttle response was not good.

Hard to accurately describe, but I'll try.

Even after fitting a Throttle-tamer I found it very difficult to be smooth at partial throttle- where the bike is right between acceleration and deceleration. It seemed that if I had the throttle twisted so that I was just barely accelerating and backed off very slightly- it made the engine want to slow rapidly, like it was getting very little or no gas at all.

After one longer ride, SWMBO complained that she had a stiff neck from the frequent accel/decel movement.

Some of this might have been due to the secondary butterflies and could have been cured or at least lessened by pulling the 'flies and installing a Power Commander. But other forces intervened and bye-bye C-14.

I never had this trouble with any of the 3 BMW K1100RS that I have owned
__________________
'92 K100RS
'12 DRZ400
sugarhillctd on the
http://k11og.org/forum/index.php world-wide K bike forum

DC2wheels is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 01:31 PM   #11
SkiFastBadly
A beer? Yes, please
 
SkiFastBadly's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: Woodinville, WA
Oddometer: 1,522
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportsGuy View Post
I LOVED the feel of the throttle and engine in the TEX, but not the huge price... :(
I agree with you on that. In this state, by the time you do the prep and tax, you're at 18K+. I just couldn't see that.
__________________
The crows seemed to be calling his name, thought Caw.

2008 Buell Ulysses
2008 Triumph Scrambler
2004 HD Heritage Softail
SkiFastBadly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 01:47 PM   #12
SportsGuy OP
icanhazdirt?
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: redmond wa
Oddometer: 538
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiFastBadly View Post
I agree with you on that. In this state, by the time you do the prep and tax, you're at 18K+. I just couldn't see that.
Yup - $9k for my FJR on trade, plus another $9,100 to bring home the TEX. Contrast that with the Tenere, at FJR + $3.5k all in...

Yes, I liked the engine in the TEX. No, I didn't think the throttle touchy at all (I thank the KTM for forcing me to become smoother). No, the cruise control wasn't worth the extra $6 in the price difference between the bikes.

I have noticed the Tenere can be touchy, but when I'm smooth, so is the bike. Being smooth randomly is the easy part. Being smooth consistently, now that's a whole lot tougher...
SportsGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 01:52 PM   #13
ttpete
Rectum Non Bustibus
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Dearborn, MI
Oddometer: 5,687
Some of the on-off twitchiness can be blamed on the requirement to comply with emissions standards. Another cause can be that some calibrations cut off all fuel on closed throttle decels and restore it just above idle speed. Another cause can be a throttle position sensor (TPS) that's out of adjustment.

My Versys had the problem, and I chose to use a Power Commander V to install a performance oriented fuel map. It's in its 5th year now without any problems.
__________________
15 BMW RnineT
10 Ducati 1098 Streetfighter S - "Sleipnir"
09 Kaw Versys
67 Triumph Bonneville TT Special
ttpete is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2013, 04:50 AM   #14
foxtrapper
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2011
Oddometer: 739
While many are perfectly fine, some are remarkably touchy, and some are just plain weird.

In many cases, idle is set for minimal emissions, so when you come off idle, you can get a very strong lurch or surge. It can be dealt with, but it's not fun to deal with, especially in low traction conditions.

Another I've run into recently is a steady speed relocation of throttle position, whereby the maintain speed position was just off the idle stop, regardless of vehicle speed. 30 mph, 90 mph, made no difference, steady speed was maintained by just cracking the throttle off idle. Made maintaining speed all but impossible to do smoothly, as the only way to back off when going down a grade was to drop the engine all the way to full idle. Manufacturer claimed this was to enhance the driving experience and maximize gas mileage.
foxtrapper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2013, 10:57 AM   #15
SportsGuy OP
icanhazdirt?
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: redmond wa
Oddometer: 538
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxtrapper View Post
.

Another I've run into recently is a steady speed relocation of throttle position, whereby the maintain speed position was just off the idle stop, regardless of vehicle speed. 30 mph, 90 mph, made no difference, steady speed was maintained by just cracking the throttle off idle. Made maintaining speed all but impossible to do smoothly, as the only way to back off when going down a grade was to drop the engine all the way to full idle. Manufacturer claimed this was to enhance the driving experience and maximize gas mileage.
What make/model was this?
SportsGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 04:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014