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Old 07-22-2013, 11:25 AM   #61
nwpa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadscum View Post
In fact, I find it to be a damn good handling bike.

Regards, Paul
Not to split hairs, but that's a factual observation of your opinion....

If we were to restrict these forums to observations supported in factual evidence with licensed engineering support only, we could cut the threads down to, oh....three?
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Old 07-22-2013, 03:41 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Roadscum View Post
Why do you say it doesn't need one? Are you an engineer in MC chassis design and suspension? Or are you just expressing an opinion?
What PR issue do you think they want to address?

Just to set the record straight, here's a fact.... I ride a 2011 R12R WITH a damper. Now an opinion, it doesn't suck.
In fact, I find it to be a damn good handling bike.

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Old 07-22-2013, 03:44 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by nwpa View Post
Not to split hairs, but that's a factual observation of your opinion..
....
......
.... ?


.. But I did stay at a Holiday Inn..


REGARDS, paul
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Old 07-22-2013, 03:58 PM   #64
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Personally I can see not reason to have any restriction on the steering, but this is my view. On another blog the reason for fitment was given that BMW wanted a standardized production line and was fitting to all new WC R models, who knows but this would explain. I just can't understand the hype though, this bike handles well, this from a Ducati MultiStrada rider , does not show signs of ill manners , why do so many go on about it . Is it that they want to find an issue, is it they can't ride , what is it that so much brain power is spent on a non event. I mean I've owned bikes that were dead set dangerous and needed fixing, Suzuki 1150 EFE , Kawasaki 1300 , to name two this bike handles dirt , bumps and smooth very well . I haven't ridden with boxes so this might make a difference but have been two up , wet dry and gravel and at speed no issue.
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Old 07-22-2013, 11:43 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Hubbman View Post
I added a HyperPro damper to my 2011 GS and I like it very much. Could I ride without it..yes, but I actually prefer the slightly heavier steering "feel" of the damper. It just seems more solid and stable to me, while adding an extra measure of security in wet or off road conditions.

On another note regarding the inclusion of a stock damper for 2014, I wonder if it has anything to do with the UK mag reviewer (cant remember which one it was?) that had a nasty tank slapper during their initial review of the 2013? That high speed wreck resulted in a snapped steering stop and a reduction in their rating from 5 stars to four. They specifically stated in the reviews that the "mysterious" handling flaw was the specific reason for their rating, which I'm pretty sure cast a shadow of doubt amongst their British and US readers.
I had read many different reviews before I bought my new GS and at least two of the reviewers experienced some form of speed wobble. Kevin Ash was the reviewer who was killed during his press ride. I haven't heard what came of the investigation or if it is even complete yet. I'll say the GS doesn't NEED a steering damper as standard equipment, but personally, I doubt it would hurt. The GS has extremely light steering in my brief experience with it (I've only had mine about a week now.) I trust my riding skills and my bike, but the bad press comes up in the back of my mind sometimes. I'm looking forward to HyperPro's damper that is supposedly coming out in August.
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Old 07-23-2013, 01:11 AM   #66
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Coming from an 07 GS to the 13 GS was an experience that at first pointed me into the direction of a Damper due to the difference in the feel of the front end, very light and nimble compared to the old girl. But after getting used to the feel I have all but put the idea of a damper onto the back burner. With some 3000k on the bike now (mostly on gravel) I feel pretty comfortable without the aid of a damper. It will be interesting to see how it feels with the narrow rear wheel (150/17) and the 21 on the front. Might be the damper comes make to the foreground. Will be interesting, the 21 made the world of difference to the bike.
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Old 07-23-2013, 04:14 AM   #67
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I posted a vid of 'some' ossilations in the steering wheel. This was caused by a badly balanced front wheel.

For me it doesn't need a steering damper. But I only use mine onroad.
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Old 07-31-2013, 02:00 PM   #68
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Saying the bike doesn't need a steering damper because you haven't experienced a problem is like saying you don't need property insurance because your house has never burned down.

The London Sunday Times ran an article in May concerning Kevin Ash's death while riding the R1200GS-W. The article stated that the circumstances of Ash's death were unknown but mystifying--he was a careful rider that went down on a gravel road under circumstances (60 mph, straight) well within his capabilities. That alone would not mean much. But the article stated that BMW sent its engineers in from Germany to do an accident investigation and test the bike, but will not release the results of that investigation. BMW simply denies that there was a problem with the bike. Then the article went on to cite at least three reviewers including Kevin Duke and Martin Fitz-Gibbons of Bike Magazine who suffered violent tank slapping incidents while testing the bike and of course lived to tell about it.

Maybe its a German thing, or maybe a BMW thing, but BMW has been anything but transparent, and then out of the blue announces the addition of a steering damper as of MY2014, and no one wants to connect the dots.

BMW could have added the damper because it wants to contain a potential litigation problem fearing a perception of a design flaw arising from the negative press. Or BMW could have added the damper because there is an actual design flaw. Either problem is addressed (at least in part) by adding the damper. One thing I think is certain is that BMW did not add a damper because it thought it was just a cool feature for the bike. The other thing I think is certain is that know one on this forum knows why--unless they work for BMW--and if you do work for BMW, please tell us, and specifically, please publish that report.

As is probably apparent, I don't like the way BMW has handled the Ash investigation and in my view raises a serious concern about the bike.

tlw
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Old 07-31-2013, 02:04 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by tlwood99 View Post
As is probably apparent, I don't like the way BMW has handled the Ash investigation and in my view raises a serious concern about the bike.
Is there a thread or some other place to read about how they've handled the investigation? I'd like to read that.
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Old 07-31-2013, 02:17 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlwood99 View Post
Saying the bike doesn't need a steering damper because you haven't experienced a problem is like saying you don't need property insurance because your house has never burned down.

The London Sunday Times ran an article in May concerning Kevin Ash's death while riding the R1200GS-W. The article stated that the circumstances of Ash's death were unknown but mystifying--he was a careful rider that went down on a gravel road under circumstances (60 mph, straight) well within his capabilities. That alone would not mean much. But the article stated that BMW sent its engineers in from Germany to do an accident investigation and test the bike, but will not release the results of that investigation. BMW simply denies that there was a problem with the bike. Then the article went on to cite at least three reviewers including Kevin Duke and Martin Fitz-Gibbons of Bike Magazine who suffered violent tank slapping incidents while testing the bike and of course lived to tell about it.

Maybe its a German thing, or maybe a BMW thing, but BMW has been anything but transparent, and then out of the blue announces the addition of a steering damper as of MY2014, and no one wants to connect the dots.

BMW could have added the damper because it wants to contain a potential litigation problem fearing a perception of a design flaw arising from the negative press. Or BMW could have added the damper because there is an actual design flaw. Either problem is addressed (at least in part) by adding the damper. One thing I think is certain is that BMW did not add a damper because it thought it was just a cool feature for the bike. The other thing I think is certain is that know one on this forum knows why--unless they work for BMW--and if you do work for BMW, please tell us, and specifically, please publish that report.

As is probably apparent, I don't like the way BMW has handled the Ash investigation and in my view raises a serious concern about the bike.

tlw

I think the case you make would be verified if BMW offers this as a free retrofit for all the 2013 bikes as well. But if they were to do that, it would be just like openly admitting to an inherent design flaw. On the other hand, adding dampers to the 2014 model-year bikes alone will certainly not do anything to eliminate their liability exposure so long as there are thousands of damper-less '13 models out there roaming the terrain/streets, susceptible to tank slappers .

All this, in my humble opinion, puts BMW between a rock and a very hard place.
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Old 07-31-2013, 11:46 PM   #71
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So every bike that has a steering damper has a design flaw?
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Old 08-01-2013, 03:58 AM   #72
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I had a situation........ turrned in behind two vehicles turning left and gave her in 1 st gear shifted into 2nd as I was beside the second car and hit a rather smal imperfection on the paved road.....the front tire went nuts......scared the shit out of me for around 2 seconds ....I kept the throttle on and the front tire came out f the wobble.......the whole thing lasted less than 3 secounds........went back to the spot numerous times since and can not make it happen again.....????.......if the wobble would have been worse I could have found myself scraping up the side of that second car....... ..so when a damper is available im gonna try one out....
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Old 08-01-2013, 06:09 AM   #73
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So every bike that has a steering damper has a design flaw?
No - that's not what I'm saying at all. If BMW decides to include a factory-installed damper on a brand-new design less than a year after the model's launch, this may be viewed as such on the GS. They have never been in the business of adding extra features as standard equipment in the past so why start now? Just a thought...
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Old 08-01-2013, 06:16 AM   #74
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This kind of thread is always amusing to me.
Does it "NEED" a steering damper to be ridden - obviously not.
Would it benefit from having one - absolutely.
Those that think it wouldn't benefit have never run a steering damper or at least a properly working one.
I was telling my buddy the other day that I would sure like one on mine and thought that BMW would come out with it standard in the near future.
Then I see this thread today - very cool.
I've notice headshake on my 13 with hard acceleration and I've notice front end deflection by rocks off road at speed. Of which both a steering damper would help.
I've raced in the dirt since I was a kid. I use to think they were some gimmick until I ran one - then I still didn't really see the big deal until I pulled it off. It is a benefit in so many ways without being a hindrance in any way I can understand why anyone wouldn't want one.
My LC without damper drives much easier than my previous F800 with a damper. And I don't feel that it has lost stability.
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Old 08-01-2013, 06:21 AM   #75
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I had a situation........ turrned in behind two vehicles turning left and gave her in 1 st gear shifted into 2nd as I was beside the second car and hit a rather smal imperfection on the paved road.....the front tire went nuts......scared the shit out of me for around 2 seconds ....I kept the throttle on and the front tire came out f the wobble.......the whole thing lasted less than 3 secounds........went back to the spot numerous times since and can not make it happen again.....????.......if the wobble would have been worse I could have found myself scraping up the side of that second car....... ..so when a damper is available im gonna try one out....
Good to hear you made it through that head shake without serious incident.

The situation you describe, with regards to irregularities of the riding surface is one of the situation where a damper will be beneficial.

I suspect those here who are the nay sayers ride mostly smooth, straight pavement and with out sudden throttle change.

On my R12R I have felt the effect of the damper a few times while riding hard and hitting irregularities when in a corner..... Yep, saved my butt.

But if ya ride slow and straight, like an old lady, you'll probably be OK.

Regards, Paul
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