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Old 07-23-2013, 03:20 PM   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azkiwi View Post
You expect Rossi to abdicate?

Cal better get as many years on his Ducati contract as possible, because once he starts telling everyone how he really feels ... To the plus; not many interviews for 8th place.

He might make a mark or two on a Gresini Honda, but really he is the right guy at the wrong time. Too old, wrong passport and too honest. He could perhaps achieve notoriety on a Forward M1 by beating some Ducatis, but not the paycheck.
I'm not so sure Cal wouldn't be well served to try Ducati. They haven't found the solution yet but I am confident they will. Look at the progress Aprilia made. True, it is a much bigger leap to the top but who would have guessed a Claimer bike would catch the tail end of the prototypes.

But you are right that it should be a rich and long contract.
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Old 07-24-2013, 03:12 AM   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantah View Post
I'm not so sure Cal wouldn't be well served to try Ducati. They haven't found the solution yet but I am confident they will. Look at the progress Aprilia made. True, it is a much bigger leap to the top but who would have guessed a Claimer bike would catch the tail end of the prototypes.

But you are right that it should be a rich and long contract.
they have different tyres and more fuel....And i bet if one of the aliens was on one it would be even higher up
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Old 07-24-2013, 05:24 AM   #228
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They haven't found the solution yet but I am confident they will.
Iīm not so confident. In the last, say, 4 years, they have gone basically nowhere, or even backwards, at least when you weight them up against their opponents. Now they are almost as slow as fastest CRT bikes. Wooohooo.

And if Marlboro walks, like they now threaten to do, it is beyond me, how they are going to keep this going. Sure Audi has money, but are they willing to invest in such a (currently) unsuccesful project, is a whole other question. I would definitely like to see more competitive machinery on the grid, itīs just that Ducati seems to seriously lack something important, that is needed to have any hope of climbing back there.

I wonder, if they should try to listen to their riders, even just one time? But maybe thatīs not in their culture, the engineers know this shit better, so theyīll do it their own way.
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Old 07-24-2013, 06:20 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by Pecha72 View Post
I would definitely like to see more competitive machinery on the grid, itīs just that Ducati seems to seriously lack something important, that is needed to have any hope of climbing back there.

I wonder, if they should try to listen to their riders, even just one time? But maybe thatīs not in their culture, the engineers know this shit better, so theyīll do it their own way.
The controlled tyre is a major player in this issue.

Haha get rid of controlled tyres and it might be fixed in 80 seconds :)

Problem is this brings about a new set of problems related to funding.

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Old 07-24-2013, 11:29 AM   #230
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The tail they are catching is the Ducati turnip truck. And they get tires that heat quicker so Aspargaro can Qualify quick and closer to the front, as long as Lorenzo and Pedrosa are ailing.
Once we get to Indy, I suspect we'll see The Ape back down the order displacing the turnip trucks.
If Cal wants a Championship he needs a Factory Honda or Yamaha.
Not a Ducati to develop while Marc gets quicker and quicker.
If on the other hand he wants access to factory money and glamour, take the pretty red bike on a ride for all it's worth. Try not to get too beat up over it.
Retire to the country house and ride the wave.
I'm not sure he's wired like that. Not too many racers are.
I do think Stoner made the leap to Honda for that very reason, but he also knew he could win on it.
Had Marquez been in the mix, I wonder if Honda would have gone for Stoner over Marc?
Future versus now?
I'm not so sure either Stoner or Marq or Lorenzo or Pedorsa could ride the turnip truck out of the corner it has been designed and adjusted into.

For the Ducati, on the one hand a rider may be getting paid to risk his life on the thing, but nothing is going to get that thing on the top step other than torrential rain and those front seven riders gravel surfing and maybe a CRT or three.
On the other hand the rider on the factory Ducati is getting paid to ride a factory bike so the guess is the check is pretty big and the bank will cash it.
Satellite Duc? Who knows? They haven't been setting the grid on fire with anything from any of the rental seats.

For that matter what does the tobacco company get out of all this? How many countries allow them to run the full logo on the bikes and riders?
So far we have not seen anything from Audi/VW/Ducati to indicate they even have a plan let alone a direction or next move. But, if we had an indication, then we'd be screwed with three empty weeks to fill with endless speculation. And where's the fun in that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantah View Post
I'm not so sure Cal wouldn't be well served to try Ducati. They haven't found the solution yet but I am confident they will. Look at the progress Aprilia made. True, it is a much bigger leap to the top but who would have guessed a Claimer bike would catch the tail end of the prototypes.

But you are right that it should be a rich and long contract.
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Old 07-24-2013, 12:19 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by Pilbara View Post
The controlled tyre is a major player in this issue.
In perspective, the Ducati is only a few tenths of a second per lap from the front end of the field. Chattering heads magnify this to make it sound like Hayden would get to the finish line faster by first-class mail.

We acknowledge that the top 4 riders are already a few tenths ahead on any Sunday and currently there are no riders of alien status competing via a Ducati, so that narrows the subjective gap a bit more. The tire and fuel advantages of the CRTs is obviously good for a few tenths too. Viewed through that lens Ducati is not so far behind.

Throw in the extremely limited amount of testing now possible, and that Honda / Yamaha are essentially just perfecting highly developed platforms based on many years of accumulated perimeter frame R&D and Ducati's position is a bit more understandable. Should Ducati have abandoned the CF project a bit sooner? It seems self evident now but was widely hailed as an ace just a couple of years ago.

Rules change a'coming. Then we'll see.
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Old 07-24-2013, 12:34 PM   #232
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Rules change a'coming. Then we'll see.
If Honda and Yamamha didn't drive the rule changes......remember forumula Honda? Yeah.
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Old 07-24-2013, 12:50 PM   #233
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I have never been good at math but finishing 33 seconds back in a 23 lap race seems like it should be more than a couple of tenths per lap slower. Hasn't the gap to the Turnip Trucks to the front been in the 30 to 40 second range for a few years now?
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Old 07-24-2013, 02:08 PM   #234
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I have never been good at math but finishing 33 seconds back in a 23 lap race seems like it should be more than a couple of tenths per lap slower.
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Old 07-24-2013, 02:46 PM   #235
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Throw in the extremely limited amount of testing now possible, and that Honda / Yamaha are essentially just perfecting highly developed platforms based on many years of accumulated perimeter frame R&D and Ducati's position is a bit more understandable.
Ducati had a winner bike in 2007, first year of the 800īs. Iīm not taking anything away from Stoner, but the bike definitely wasnīt bad, and their main competitors had a lot of issues at that time. Ducati had been steadily heading towards success all the way from 2003, when they first participated with the Desmosedici. There were podiums and even victories taken before -07. I think the bike (and Capirossi) actually took one victory already in -03.

The interesting thing is, where exactly did they lose the plot, and how they have managed to do it so completely. Rule changes, new tyres etc., cannot possibly have come as a surprise to them. Honda and Yamaha have adapted to these changes, too.
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Old 07-24-2013, 05:00 PM   #236
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The interesting thing is, where exactly did they lose the plot, and how they have managed to do it so completely. Rule changes, new tyres etc., cannot possibly have come as a surprise to them. Honda and Yamaha have adapted to these changes, too.
I think we've beaten this topic to death. The consensus is hubris brought on by the weird genius of Stoner masking problems combined with Ducati engineers/Italian arrogance (Rossi, Melandri and even Stoner have mentioned it).

They keep looking for the next Stoner to ride around the problems.

P.s. to be a little fair to Ducati, they don't have cubic Euro's to throw at the problem in the way Honda and Yamaha have. Even Kawasaki and Suzuki were unwilling to fund the requirement to compete.
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Old 07-24-2013, 05:12 PM   #237
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I think we've beaten this topic to death. The consensus is hubris brought on by the weird genius of Stoner masking problems combined with Ducati engineers/Italian arrogance (Rossi, Melandri and even Stoner have mentioned it).

They keep looking for the next Stoner to ride around the problems.

P.s. to be a little fair to Ducati, they don't have cubic Euro's to throw at the problem in the way Honda and Yamaha have. Even Kawasaki and Suzuki were unwilling to fund the requirement to compete.
They know that
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Old 07-24-2013, 05:26 PM   #238
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I think we've beaten this topic to death.
There is no horse so dead that it can't take another beating.

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Old 07-24-2013, 08:24 PM   #239
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And we've got three more weeks!
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There is no horse so dead that it can't take another beating.

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Old 07-25-2013, 05:01 AM   #240
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And we've got three more weeks!
Can I be the whiny kid in the back seat....

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