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Old 07-20-2013, 07:05 AM   #91
Aussie66
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See, i don't think they ride similar, I always felt that Stoner has more control more precision, MM is more raw, wilder.
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Old 07-20-2013, 08:40 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Aussie66 View Post
See, i don't think they ride similar, I always felt that Stoner has more control more precision, MM is more raw, wilder.
Yep, watch the FP2 highlights video on MotoGP as an example, looks like Marquez came soooo close to tossing it in turn 2. I like his riding style, it's exciting. I hope he doesn't crash too much... so far so good.
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Old 07-20-2013, 09:04 AM   #93
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Do you agree; If that bike had #27 on the front, would you know the difference?!
Valentino said Marc is riding like Casey at Laguna, so at the very least, VR46 agrees.

Lets see if Marc can do the outside pass in T1 tomorrow. You know damn well he has studied that move.

I laughed out loud when Marc was pushing at the end of FP2 in T2 and he had a moment with his foot off the outside peg and he just gave it more gas. It reminded me of those impossible saves he made in Moto 2. Outrageous on a Moto GP bike.

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Don't mind #27 but prefer 93 any day of the week. And mind you I am Australian and love fishing too.
I would prefer to see both. All day, every day, in Moto GP.
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Old 07-20-2013, 09:13 AM   #94
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Do the AMA and MotoGP bikes run the same course at Laguna?

If so....

Interesting comparing the fastest class times-- MM was 5.5 seconds faster than Beaubier and less than 3 seconds faster than R.L. Hayden. So, 7% faster than one and 4% faster than the other.

Now I realize that in race distance terms that's a lot of time and that the last couple of seconds (and especially 10ths of seconds) are the hardest to get, but....

Doesn't seem like all that much difference between unlimited budget bikes being ridden by the world's best riders and "slow" production bikes ridden by folks that many people feel can't compete at the world level.



If not... never mind

Or better; if not, why not?
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Old 07-20-2013, 09:16 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by wpbarlow View Post
Do the AMA and MotoGP bikes run the same course at Laguna?

If so....

Interesting comparing the fastest class times-- MM was 5.5 seconds faster than Beaubier and less than 3 seconds faster than R.L. Hayden. So, 7% faster than one and 4% faster than the other.

Now I realize that in race distance terms that's a lot of time and that the last couple of seconds (and especially 10ths of seconds) are the hardest to get, but....

Doesn't seem like all that much difference between unlimited budget bikes being ridden by the world's best riders and "slow" production bikes ridden by folks that many people feel can't compete at the world level.



If not... never mind

Or better; if not, why not?
Exact same course.
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Old 07-20-2013, 09:19 AM   #96
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Bear in mind that Laguna is one of the shorter (or the shortest?) circuit in MotoGP. So this comparison would be more significant if made on an entire race vs. only a lap. Anyway, it is always interesting to see how close is the gap between prototypes and derivated machines.
Also CRT bikes are more competitive in shorter circuits but at the end of the race...
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Old 07-20-2013, 09:22 AM   #97
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Laguna is the second shortest circuit. Sachsenring is the shortest.
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Old 07-20-2013, 09:33 AM   #98
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I would love to see what Hayes could do on a competitive ride in world superbike!
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Old 07-20-2013, 09:35 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by auguzt View Post
Bear in mind that Laguna is one of the shorter (or the shortest?) circuit in MotoGP. So this comparison would be more significant if made on an entire race vs. only a lap. Anyway, it is always interesting to see how close is the gap between prototypes and derivated machines.
Also CRT bikes are more competitive in shorter circuits but at the end of the race...
Good point.

Blake Young also made a painful point about the differences between the tires; I would be very willing to bet that the Dunlops the AMA guys use are much friendlier over a single lap than the Moto GP Bridgestones.

The availability of a softer compound Bridgestone to the CRT bikes has made their single lap performance much closer to the prototypes, too.
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Old 07-20-2013, 09:41 AM   #100
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I would love to see what Hayes could do on a competitive ride in world superbike!
He raced WSS once or twice (or more?). The highlight was getting punched on track by Sofa Glue.
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Old 07-20-2013, 10:06 AM   #101
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Valentino said Marc is riding like Casey at Laguna, so at the very least, VR46 agrees.
I hope he follows through with that ...
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Old 07-20-2013, 10:09 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by wpbarlow View Post

Doesn't seem like all that much difference between unlimited budget bikes being ridden by the world's best riders and "slow" production bikes ridden by folks that many people feel can't compete at the world level.
They average about 100mph over a lap and that works out to about 150 feet per second, so a three second per lap advantage amounts to a 450-foot gap after a flying lap if they had crossed the line together initially.

What does it say about the bikes and riders? Great question. My 2c ...

Riders first: I think you have an interesting point there. Suggests the step from national elite to international elite is not that great. Which is probably right.

Only thing is, it doesn't need to be that great. And that is the interesting bit. At the pointy end, the difference between runaway winner and perennial also-ran can be as little as a couple of tenths per lap. Two seconds over 10 laps, 4 seconds over 20. Further back, anybody who can lap only a second slower than Lorenzo on the same machinery is a brilliant rider. But a rider who finishes the race half a minute behind.

So, MotoGP as a spectacle amplifies very minor differences in rider ability.

What about the bike side?

Why wouldn't a MotoGP bike be much more than three seconds faster than a national level glorified streetbike, even over a short lap? And even with equivalent riders? Or rather, what might it imply if it is not?

My guess: even streetbikes are so good now, that for most of the lap, the performance potential of either machine is largely wasted. Essentially because the tyres can't use it. So, the big dollars spent on the MotoGP prototypes can help in only two ways: a) getting more out of the tyres; b) putting more into the small parts of the lap where the tyres could transmit more performance than a modified streetbike can offer.

So, all that money makes hardly any difference. But of course, hardly any is plenty when it comes to working out who takes home the big prize.
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Old 07-20-2013, 10:26 AM   #103
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Ben Spies is at the track and may join Gavin and Nick in the booth.

No Pedrosa for FP3. He seems to be struggling with his injury more than JLo. Can't be sure though until QP.

JLo is looking more and more like a podium contender.

I wouldn't be surprised to see "Rookie" Marquez set a new track record.
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Old 07-20-2013, 11:02 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by sprocketjock View Post
Laguna is the second shortest circuit. Sachsenring is the shortest.
Laguna Seca: 3610 m
Sachsenring: 3671 m

Laguna Seca is shorter, but this data are from Wikipedia so.... You'll never know...
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Old 07-20-2013, 11:31 AM   #105
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MONTEREY, Calif. (July 20, 2013) - AMA Pro Racing and Chet Burks Productions confirmed today that Sunday's GEICO Motorcycle AMA Pro Road Racing finals from Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca will be aired in a set of tape-delayed broadcasts on CBS Sports Network. The series is competing on the historic 2.238-mile circuit situated in the rolling hills above Monterey, Calif. as part of the Red Bull U.S. Grand Prix alongside the international stars of MotoGP.

Flag-to-flag coverage of the AMA Pro National Guard SuperBike and AMA Pro GoPro Daytona SportBike races scheduled for Sunday afternoon will be featured in one-hour broadcasts as part of the CBS Sports Spectacular. Television broadcast airdates and times will be released as soon as they are available.
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