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Old 07-21-2013, 07:30 PM   #16
Airhead Wrangler
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Originally Posted by Clay Spinner View Post
the only pic of Richie's fairing that I know about. It small and purposeful. I would like at some point to add the option of having a screen for road work.
I think that's actually a BMW part. Look on the parts fiche for the R80ST. There's one for sale on german ebay right now:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/originale-BMW...item232d523233

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Old 07-21-2013, 08:55 PM   #17
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Textile bags are the smartest way to go. Aluminum panniers look cool, and you can rig a huge luggage rack with them, but the weight makes them more fashion over function. You don't need to go overboard with custom sub-frames if you run textile bags. Besides, the security offered by most aluminum boxes wouldn't hold up to a crowbar for more than a minute. My boxes cost more than anything I'd keep in them so I don't lock them.

That being said, if you like the idea of metal boxes, get them. If efficiency was all that mattered we wouldn't be riding 30 year old BMWs. I had a lot of fun welding my own racks....twice

I wouldn't swap your sub-frame. The reason why people complain about the sub-frame cracking on the G/S is because the tabs that hang off the bottom of the sub-frame aren't as beefy as on the paralevers. Run textile bags and you'll never have to worry about it. Even running heavier boxes, you're better off adding a chunk of metal to the stock sub-frame instead adding a lot of unnecessary weight by going to the r100gs.
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Old 07-21-2013, 11:36 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by mendoje View Post
Isn't a Basic/Kalahari nothing more than an R100GS with an 800 engine and a PD tank? So the subframe from a R100GS should work, if you can find one.
No sir. The kalahari subframe is the exact same dimensions as the r80 g/s and ST except, it is made from a thicker guage and diameter steel. It basically solved the cracking problems. The r100 gs subframe is much longer and i think, slightly different in a few other areas. Rob farmer would know more as i think he bought the last Basic subframe without knowing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Airhead Wrangler View Post
I think that's actually a BMW part. Look on the parts fiche for the R80ST. There's one for sale on german ebay right now.
That fairing shown is one that Richie designed. When I receive mine I will post up some more photos so you will see the difference. But, the one that you posted may also come in handy so thanks for the link.

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Originally Posted by bgoodsoil View Post
Textile bags are the smartest way to go. Aluminum panniers look cool, and you can rig a huge luggage rack with them, but the weight makes them more fashion over function. You don't need to go overboard with custom sub-frames if you run textile bags. Besides, the security offered by most aluminum boxes wouldn't hold up to a crowbar for more than a minute. My boxes cost more than anything I'd keep in them so I don't lock them.

That being said, if you like the idea of metal boxes, get them. If efficiency was all that mattered we wouldn't be riding 30 year old BMWs. I had a lot of fun welding my own racks....twice

I wouldn't swap your sub-frame. The reason why people complain about the sub-frame cracking on the G/S is because the tabs that hang off the bottom of the sub-frame aren't as beefy as on the paralevers. Run textile bags and you'll never have to worry about it. Even running heavier boxes, you're better off adding a chunk of metal to the stock sub-frame instead adding a lot of unnecessary weight by going to the r100gs.
I already have two sets of worldbeaters.... One that was on the 1150 and one for the 1100. I though if I was making a run into the city or something I would strap on the aluminium boxes for the capacity, waterproofness, and security. Now I am well aware that if someone wants to get into them they will... But its the casual thief that I want to put off. I am also aware of the work that has gone into making the magadan panniers cut resistant etc etc... but I do like my alum. luggage and think there can be a purpose for both styles. Besides... the boxes are quite light really... I'll pull them down in a few weeks (I'm slightly disabled from a broken ankle at the moment and can't jump down from the garage rafters where my panniers are kept) and weight them.

For any offroad/gravel road and exploring I would probably favour the softbags. I think I will just stiffen up the oem subframe and take it from there. So that leaves me with tinkering with the oem pannier frame to make them a bit more robust as I find them to be quite springy, particularly at the back end. I am hoping Pruster can advise as he has been there done that so to speak.

Clay Spinner screwed with this post 07-22-2013 at 12:03 AM
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Old 07-21-2013, 11:42 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Ras Thurlo View Post
have you seen these repro basic/kalahari subframes:

http://bamw.co.uk/parts/subframe-conversion.html
I did see that and spoke with Gary. My thinking is that if I am paying that much I want it to be the best, and being only recently made there is no reason why they couldn't be. . I would think the buyers for such things would be after the best and question going to the efforts to produce something that isn't. I had an engineering friend look up the steel number and as I understand it is rolled steel. To me that makes it a nice looking frame, but made from the cheapest steel. Now, granted it is stronger than my OEM subframe so I am not questioning the durability of it. In fact... if I didn't have one to use I would buy one as it is available and strong. However, something in my head just won't let me buy something as an upgrade to what I already have, but made with the cheapest materials...even if it is strong than my original subframe. As I said, I don't understand making something new, for a very few people who may actually be interested but having it made at minimal cost. If it was being sold at about 200 I'd probably still buy it... but not for 370... my head just won't let me do it.

Gary seems like a nice guy and I don't want people to be put off his stuff. He has had made some hard to find items and they are well made. I will be buying a new speedo clock front cover thing and a wind shield thing to stick on the g/s (the new front cover is so I dont have to drill out the oem on that currently resides on the bike)... and probably a few other bits and pieces. Without Gary... the options would be very limited, some parts near impossible to find as they are NLA and I think he runs an honest business.

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Old 07-22-2013, 12:22 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by mendoje View Post
Isn't a Basic/Kalahari nothing more than an R100GS with an 800 engine and a PD tank? So the subframe from a R100GS should work, if you can find one.
The basic subframe is unique. It's very similar to the g/s or st sub frame but is a lot stronger and has the kink in the right hand strut in a different place to the g/s one. If you fit the g/s sub frame to a paralever it fouls the shock. There's cross member difference as well to allow the longer paralever mudguard to be mounted.



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Old 07-22-2013, 02:12 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Clay Spinner View Post
I am hoping Pruster can advise as he has been there done that so to speak.
My subframe is the stock one with some mods. I raised it 3 cm to get rid of the low hanging looks and I needed a bit more room for the nobby tires as they were eating my seat lock once in a while
My subframe is also supported by the fuel tank thats under the seat. so I took the risk of using the original frame.
The bike was also put together in a rush because I had just sold my 100GS and bought the ST when Walter asked me to join him.

For the soft luggage I made some racks that were pretty ok. But on the trip I moved the bags further forwards almost every day. By doing that I could feel the bike was handling better and better.
With the bags that far forward there is less strain on the subframe again so no need to make it stronger.

To get the weight more between the wheels I might swap my 5cm longer swing arm for a 100mm longer one.

After Walters first Sibirsky trip on his G650X his alloy subframe had broken welds. This was after 50.000 km
His mate Tee Bee (Terry) done the same km's at the same speed and tracks with the stock alloy subframe.
Terry has the panniers agains his heels and I do think thats the reason his frame has no cracks.

I did put together a few bikes for other people, some were using touratech hard luggage on the touratech racks. They were ok for many trips. But now realizing how much weight can be saved with the soft luggage they bought soft panniers too.

A few people I know used the stock BMW pannier racks to carry there soft luggage but they ALL broke somewhere !!
Not that hard to fix but like you said if things can be avoided its the better option.

If you like me to post some pics of the rack I made for my ST no problem. But I don't want to pollute your thread even more
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Old 07-22-2013, 02:16 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Prutser View Post

If you like me to post some pics of the rack I made for my ST no problem. But I don't want to pollute your thread even more
Pollute away!! Heck... its a build thread but the thing that I find really useful about build threads is all of the questions and comments/advice that others make. One doesn't learn anything by not asking questions! Combined with the fact that you're already on to phase two pannier racks your thoughts will be instrumental in me not needing to have a phase two!

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Old 07-22-2013, 02:49 AM   #23
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Custom racks

This is the one I made to fit my stock raised subframe.



This picture shows I still have some room to put them lower and further forwards.
The luggage wasn't bothering me but for better mass centralization I am going to make some new racks.




So there will be a Phase Two I just need to find some time before I leave to make some new ones.
I could improve these but that will make them look messy.
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Old 07-22-2013, 03:08 AM   #24
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Nice looking rack! (Never thought I'd say that to a guy )

I'll have lots of questions... please feel free to debate your plans on this thread... it will save me from trying to find it later on!

My first question is what is the purpose of the little triangular hoop thing just below the mounting points... and would you add any other bits and pieces to make things more adjustable? I'm guessing it for hooks/ties to fit through but I've learned assumptions are not always a good thing. By reading your threads it seems that you have a good sense of design and practicality... so they must be there for a specific reason!

I guess a second question would be... what do you consider needs changing and why? I'd like to be able to take a picture to a welder and say... make me these... and lets work to these dimensions (from my bike of course) so having a idea of what and why things are where they are can be a big advantage.

I like the big 'loop' around the back to support those bottom two edges of the racks... but I think I'm going to have to fit the bike together with the extended swing arm and fender in order get the dimensions right. Man... I need to take a welding course! I figure its like buying a camera... if you buy a professional camera you become a professional photographer. Unfortunately the same doesn't happen when you buy a flute... you just become someone who has a flute... I'm sure the welding machine is more like the camera though.

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Old 07-22-2013, 03:28 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Clay Spinner View Post
What is the purpose of the little triangular hoop thing just below the mounting points... and would you add any other bits and pieces to make things more adjustable?
Those triangular things are loops for the straps that hold the role bag on the back.
They work fine on all the racks I use on my other bikes and keep the straps from sliding against the seat.
Although they are not sharp or thin they rubbed right trough my Steel pony's that I used on the sibirsky trip.
The fabric of the magadan's is much stronger but I'll put those loops in an other place.

For the rest I didn't mis any thing to adjust things. Although I might make an alloy tool tube on the inside of the right rack.
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Old 07-22-2013, 03:36 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Clay Spinner View Post
I like the big 'loop' around the back to support those bottom two edges of the racks... but I think I'm going to have to fit the bike together with the extended swing arm and fender in order get the dimensions right. Man... I need to take a welding course! I figure its like buying a camera... if you buy a professional camera you become a professional photographer. Unfortunately the same doesn't happen when you buy a flute... you just become someone who has a flute... I'm sure the welding machine is more like the camera though.
I have tried a lot of welders (borrowed a few when mine was broken)
Most of the chinese ones were really not that bad. More than good enough for some pannier racks, exhaust or subframe welding.
I have seen more people struggle with the more professional welders because they couldn't figure out how to adjust them.
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Old 07-22-2013, 08:13 AM   #27
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Man... I need to take a welding course! I figure its like buying a camera... if you buy a professional camera you become a professional photographer. Unfortunately the same doesn't happen when you buy a flute... you just become someone who has a flute... I'm sure the welding machine is more like the camera though.
You don't have to do REAL welding. I say that because the little wire-fed MIG welders don't feel like real welding. They're sorta like glue guns for steel. You can get a set here for about $200 US and it takes a 3 minute youtube video to figure out how to use it. It opens up a whole world of stuff you can do. Think of it as a point-and click camera. Or maybe a recorder. In a few quick lessons, this could be you!



I haven't had any trouble out of my sub-frame. They got a reputation for breaking because the stock racks hang off those tabs on the bottom. I have my racks going to the turn-signal mounts at the back so that the weight isn't all on those tabs. The bracket where the stock turn signals mounted is really strong. You could run a bar from those mounts down to any racks pretty easily. It seems silly to buy a whole new sub-frame when it's that easy to reinforce the stock frame but BMWs do tend to attract the 'throw money at it' crowd



I also exteneded those tabs a few more inches. I've seen a lot of folks extend those tabs and I think the main reason why people get the r100gs sub-frame is because those tabs are much stronger on them. Unfortunately, there's also a lot of excess weight hanging off the back on those sub-frames too. Again, it's a simple job with a bench grinder and a small welder.



Those boxes are probably around 10-13 pounds. You'll drop about 20 pounds going to textile bags.

Quote:
But on the trip I moved the bags further forwards almost every day. By doing that I could feel the bike was handling better and better.
With the bags that far forward there is less strain on the subframe again so no need to make it stronger.
I had a Pelican box mounted behind my sub-frame as a toolbox. When I removed the box, it felt like a different bike. The back end didn't want to fall over into corners as much. I've always heard that high-and-back is the worst place to put weight. I remade my racks and shifted the boxes forward about 40mm. I think you're right. If you can get the weight between the axles it'll lean better. Right now my boxes are centered up on the rear tire and I can't move them forward any more. I think your idea of extending the swingarm might be the solution there.



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Old 07-23-2013, 02:27 AM   #28
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That is a nice recorder! You wouldn't happen to have a clip you of playing a song for us would you?

I'm not sure my welding (or lack of it!) is up to making a set of pannier racks yet... I don't think I know enough about engineering and how to make something strong by using gussets and such... but I'm sure I can find someone who does to help. If not there are always books I suppose... or I can take Brad's advice and just watch a few you tube video though I am a bit concerned that I'll be deemed lazy by doing that instead of reading the book (just like high school english all over again!)

Pruster... if you are unsure about extending your swingarm... feel free to fab up a set of racks... I'll try them out and let you know how they work!
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Old 07-23-2013, 04:20 AM   #29
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Plan B

Plan B was a direct result of two factors. I received a complete r80 motor, gearbox, spare cylinders & pistons and many many many other bits from Jake & Co. Jake has been a big help talking through a variety of things and his experience is really useful. I keep trying to share a few drinks with Jake (a cranberry with lime is about a strong as it gets for me but that means I'm a good designated driver... and always available!). The second was that I had a R100 GS frame in the garage not doing anything. I was about to send it on over to Ras (sorry mate) until, following a conversation with Richie, it transpired that he prefers to use a R100 GS frame for his bikes.

So, Moorespeed already had my ST frame and was happy to work with that, it just needed a few tweaks. What the heck, lets have two frame done! I have enough parts and bits for another bike (I think... though I'm sure I'll be short a few things once they start going back together)

Somewhere along the way I also ended up with another ST frame, r100 engines X 2, and an assorted collection of bits and bobs... and another set of 4860 forks ( though from a 125 exc as they are massively undersprung (almost looks like a german word eh.... undersprung durch technik?))!

Bloody heck... a lot of parts. So what to do now. Well, ones mind starts to wonder about the possibilities having so many parts and such... but when you get out your trusty speadsheet the idea does kinda fall apart a bit... its all the smaller pieces like gear shift lever, clutch arm actuator, switchgear, and countless other parts (I haven't even realised yet) that start to add up and make the idea a bit less feasible.

So where does this stand us and how has things changed?

The ST (frame) that Richie was working on will become a less modified dual sport tourer. At the moment it will retain the standard length swingarm but with the upgraded WP4860 front (shortened to OE length) that was destined for the G/S (which will now remain 100% stock). I managed to bag another HPN paintable tank as shown below... which will perform fuelling duties nicely.



I have a gearbox that was kindly rebuilt by Bob that includes a higher 5th which should perform nicely when fitted with a 32:10 final drive with a r100 g/s rear hub attached ala Stephen Botcher. That should really give the bike some highway efficiency, and when fitted with the r100 engine it should pull along nicely. At some point I'll ask Richie to improve the heads for me but he is so busy with race season being upon us, and I've already given him enough work, probably a bit more than our original conversation entailed. Asking him to do more would feel a bit like flogging a tired horse! On an aside, I spoke to a few guys at local, and recent airhead gatherings and they've all said that the biggest and most money efficient/ cost effective improvement one can make to one of these bikes if for Richie to work on the heads. There are probably a few other bits and pieces (like a rear subframe... perhaps a use for my soon to be new found welding skills) that I need to source but other than that the bike will use as many spare parts as I have available. There is also no rush as time wrenching with my father in the garage, in the middle of winter with my little feller mucking in there where he can reach will be a treat in itself. My father has just purchased (one or two.. I'm not sure) bike lift tables for his garage so working on these will be much nicer than my garage floor that I have been used to.

The other ST frame will be used to rebuild an ST as OEM using all of my stock parts. It is such a good little bike and should be great for teaching little clay spinners to ride when they are old enough. In the interim it will be a nice little run around and short sunny day jaunts along the coast line of Nova Scotia.

The R100GS frame will now become the highly modified bike ala the moorespeed R100 with the exception of the hpn tank and WP4860 front forks. It will also receive the rear brake mod to turn it upwards and (as you've seen in previous posts) be kitted out with adventure spec soft bags once I can get a rack sorted out.

Oh...I also acquired a lovely migsel sidestand which are made in short runs and available, occasionally and for short periods of time, via an email.

There are a few boxes of Siebenrock bits and bobs on the shelf (shorter gear shifters, oil sight glass etc etc) and a few more yet to arrive. This bike will also be fitted with a completely rebuilt (Bob's a good'un, just don't tell his daughter until her house is finished as he wasn't supposed to do any work on bikes before it was completed) gearbox with a lower 1st and higher 5th.

So the new airhead stable will include

1 x R80 G/S stock with the option of swapping the 19litre tank with an R100 GS tank for longer trips.

1 X R80 ST stock but with the later paralever mirrors.

1 X R100 GS Moorespeed highly modified.

1X r100 GS Moorespeed frame (for now) with a variety of parts until I can get another swingarm and drive shaft... I have the parts I need to swap for an extended one... just need another batch to be made.

There should also be a spare engine though it might be claimed by Richie due to the original list of work he was willing to undertake... slightly growing!

I am sure there are a few things that I've forgotten, and I don't have any more photos of things at the moment, so I'm thinking I may start asking advice on tank paint design. I need to find my copy of photoshop somewhere before I can start.

The Moorespeed special will have black forks, black front A60 and rear excel rims, black swingarm and subframe with a white frame. I'm thinking white for front and rear fenders and the main body of the tank white but with a Moorespeed instead of marlboro insignia. A few inspirational pics are as follows:
















As far as completion date. Richie is hoping for a mid august completion so I'll be able to update with some pics then. If anyone had a lead on an R80 ST subframe or similar let me know... US and Canada work for me as I have address to ship in both countries... (friends who summer in Nova Scotia... I may have a few bikes in the family (father and son projects!) but we don't collect houses!)

On a sad note... mini spinner was distraught when the GSA was sold... but the kind buyer offered part payment in big chocolate coins which put the sorrow to bed for a few hours. As a momento we took these photos...



and





Oh... and to explain the forum name... I have a little hobby that involves me Spinning Clay










And my clay re-claimer in action (every good story needs something to draw people back!)



Happy to swap pots for parts!

Clay Spinner screwed with this post 07-23-2013 at 07:10 AM
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:05 AM   #30
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kiln questions

wood fired or charcoal? any photos of the finished kiln?
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