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Old 07-22-2013, 12:43 AM   #1
stujamur OP
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Lithium bike batteries ?

At a bike shop getting bits and mentioned my battery was on the way out.

Spares guy convinced me to buy this $163 dollar sbs powersports lithium battery. Less then half the weight and half the size of my current battery.

All sounds good but I am a bit nervous as my 610 is fussy when it comes to this stuff.. I asked will it be ok with my ctek trickle chargers.. "ye will be fine" he tells me.

I nervously buy it and on my way home I had a "feeling". Pull in and interwebby says my ctek charger is no good for this battery - something about desulphering ? ( i know very little about this stuff ).

I bring it back and try convince him its no good for me and my charger - Can I have my money back ?.. He kinda laughs and says I will end up with a inferior battery and a charger I wouldn't need if i went with the lithium battery.

Anyway I go buy a standard bike battery from another store and I tell guy at he battery shop about the lithium battery. He reckons the technology is too new and they can fail too easily.

so whats the deal with these batteries?
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Old 07-22-2013, 12:53 AM   #2
tripodtiger
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I was speaking with a battery retailer/repthe other weekend, at a bike do, not at a shop and I wasn't in the market. We were just talking. He was really ethusiastic about the new lithium batteries performance. 2 year warranty on the ones he was involved with. He commented that the first perception is often along the lines of "how can something that weighs 'nothing' do the job?" It's beyond my knowledge but time will tell.

And he reckoned a trickle charger wouldn't be an issue. The rate of charge is pretty important to prevent sulphation, I am told. One possibloe consequence of sulphation is that the battery can expand andget stuck inside the bike, no way to remove without breaking it open

The next question is, how much of my interpretation of what I've been told is correct?
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Old 07-22-2013, 12:59 AM   #3
Strummer
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Stu, I just bought an SSB lithium batt for the 450.
$91 express posted, arrived nex day. weighs bugger all and cranks twice as good as the oem batt.
so far so good.
i ride so often that trickle charging is never an issue, but they apparently last 6 months without a recharge.
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Old 07-22-2013, 01:00 AM   #4
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Sulphation only occurs in lead acid batteries
http://www.bulldog-battery.com/wp-co...20-%20Copy.pdf
I have a Shoria in the DRZ, no trickle charger, only been getting ridden every month or 2 lately, starts right up without drama every time.
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Old 07-22-2013, 01:00 AM   #5
Llamaha
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If it's so much smaller where do you put it without it jumping all over the place?
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Old 07-22-2013, 01:02 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stujamur View Post
At a bike shop getting bits and mentioned my battery was on the way out.

Spares guy convinced me to buy this $163 dollar sbs powersports lithium battery. Less then half the weight and half the size of my current battery.
Where can i get one for that price?
A battery won't stop my husky.... just being a husky will.
Don't be afraid of technology stu.
I can know plug the husky into a computer and talk to it.
It will tell me things like this bit is farked up please fix me or i won't start
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Old 07-22-2013, 01:03 AM   #7
Big Willy
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Dunno if I'd trust one in the middle of nowhere but being so light, I'd take one as a spare on a non kickstart bike
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Old 07-22-2013, 01:21 AM   #8
prestonpaul
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I had a Shorai lithium battery crap itself in the middle of nowhere, less than 12 months old. totally dead, wouldn't even power the parking light. I won't be buying another any time soon!
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Old 07-22-2013, 01:27 AM   #9
stujamur OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WILL_S View Post
Where can i get one for that price?
A battery won't stop my husky.... just being a husky will.
Don't be afraid of technology stu.
I can know plug the husky into a computer and talk to it.
It will tell me things like this bit is farked up please fix me or i won't start
I was afraid, scared and confused Will . I returned mine to the counter at full tittle Springwood .
Now i have a big yellow thing to hook up .

What have i done . Amateur hour for stue . Haha
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Old 07-22-2013, 01:37 AM   #10
crash n bern
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One of the forum members over on the US side did an in depth test of the gell and Lipo4 batteries. Interesting reading.http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=757934
This will answer all your questions.




Some of the yanks who live in cold climates like them because they don't die on cold morning start ups. One of the main advantages of the Lipo4 batteries is that they can sit for 6 months and not go flat. If they do drop below cranking amps a jump start will bring the charge up again. But if they do go dead flat they're shot. I put one in my SE and it didn't last long but the one in my Husaberg is holding up well. I just make sure I start it often. The other advantage is they can hold more cca than a normal battery, but the bloke that did the test found that one of the popular Lipo4's had well over stated it's cca. Something to watch for. Those battery tenders I think are okay for trickle charging them, but they don't really need it unless the bike is sitting for a long time. The real advantage would be weight saving which might apply more for an enduro bike.

After the one in my SE died I replaced it with a gell, I've gotten up to ten years out of gell's and there cheaper than a Lipo4. Although Lipo's are coming down in price. The gell's usually die slowly and give some warning, the Lipo's go dead suddenly and that's it. You can cut the Lipo4's open and replace all the batteries like people do with the lithium power tool batteries.http://lithbattoz.com.au/index.php?page=battery-cells

I had asked my auto electrician about them and he was non fussed and said the same thing as your battery bloke did.
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Old 07-22-2013, 01:53 AM   #11
Aussie Steve
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Just put a ballistic battery in my 640, died on the first big ride. I reckon it overcharged and popped a cell as they arent meant to be charged over 14.4 volts I think it was.

Chargers with desulfation modes are no good and will hurt lithium batteries, just need a normal one with a low charge rate.

I will get another as the size and weight difference is important enough to me, plus I have a kickstart if it all goes wrong again.
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Old 07-22-2013, 05:03 PM   #12
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Not all LiFePo4's are the same. Shorai are particularly crap.

This bloke really knows his stuff and put a few to the load test destroying a few in the process.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=770364
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Old 07-22-2013, 06:35 PM   #13
slowbike smallpenis
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Are they the type working wonders in the New Boeing Dreamliners
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Old 07-22-2013, 06:46 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussie Steve View Post

the size and weight difference is important enough to me,
You light weight, you!

About the size thing. I am told that some of them just come with packing that takes them to the outer dimensions of the oem battery. Others are essentially the small battery inside an otherwise empty case.

For my purposes, the ability to take a continuous trickle charge is necessary. Gel batteries ( are they the sameas AGM?) do this well.
Lead acid (wet) batteries on trickle need routine checking, as they will vent & the acid level will drop.

Of course, if we wait another week or two, some smart bastard will come up with another lighter, smaller, smarter battery.
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Old 07-22-2013, 06:48 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmotten View Post
Not all LiFePo4's are the same. Shorai are particularly crap.

This bloke really knows his stuff and put a few to the load test destroying a few in the process.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=770364
It might be worth noting that lithium batteries are fairly new concept. The design is still evolving, and still has issues. The lithium iron phosphate (LFP) batteries found in have been around commercially for around 10-12 years now and designs are currently being fought out by patent lawyers, so where one type might be great, other types might be slightly lacking to get around some specific patent. Move forward another 10 odd years when the patents expire and you will see some real evolution in lithium batteries (if we have not moved on already).

I think I read somewhere that the chinese are about to step up the production of LFP batteries, so this can mean either 2 things, a flood of cheap crap cells, or an improvement in design. The former usually occurs first!

Anyway, I am sold on LFP batteries in power tools. Never really had the chance to try them in cars/bikes. I am sure if you buy a decent brand they are probably fine.
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