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Old 07-23-2013, 04:40 AM   #1
RedRupert OP
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The KTM Repair Manual is a joke

From time to time I notice something in the Repair Manual that's wrong, or just odd.

Here they show that there's a spacer washer underneath the INLET valve springs, but actually the spacers should be under the EXHAUST valve springs:



This is how it should be (I'm sure because it's how I've found factory-built engines):



Has anybody else noticed other inaccuracies or odd advice?
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Old 07-23-2013, 04:57 AM   #2
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Clutch re-Assembly

KTM say:



Why must the sharp edges on all the disks point in the same direction? Which direction is best?

Why does the last lining disk need to be 'turned one meshing'?

Ignoring this advice makes absolutely no difference.
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Old 07-23-2013, 05:13 AM   #3
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As a new motorcycle owner, I read it cover to cover. Twice. I enjoy it has an extensive manual and tool kit (even impressing the wife) and am appreciative of having such documentation.

I'm sure there are a few peculiarities and inconsistencies, as you have discovered. Most likely I would come on here for anything anyway, and use the manual as a secondary overall reference. Again, I don't know any better than you experienced gearheads and riders on how manuals are normally. To me it's great.

John
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Old 07-23-2013, 05:23 AM   #4
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Cam-shaft tilting

Why is it SO important not to tilt the cam-shaft when removing? There is no chance of damaging the bearing surface or cams. What do they mean?

It would have been nice if KTM had had the cam-lobes ground perfectly square in the first place!


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Old 07-23-2013, 05:33 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoradoJohn View Post
As a new motorcycle owner, I read it cover to cover. Twice. I enjoy it has an extensive manual and tool kit (even impressing the wife) and am appreciative of having such documentation.

I'm sure there are a few peculiarities and inconsistencies, as you have discovered. Most likely I would come on here for anything anyway, and use the manual as a secondary overall reference. Again, I don't know any better than you experienced gearheads and riders on how manuals are normally. To me it's great.

John
I'm talking about the Repair Manual, not the Owner's Manual. The Repair manual is in no way extensive. If you think it is, I'd suggest you check a Yamaha or Kawasaki workshop manual. The KTM one is more what I'd expect from a cheap Chinese bike.

Also, the bike has been around for ten years now; enough time for KTM to make corrections.
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Old 07-23-2013, 05:41 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRupert View Post
From time to time I notice something in the Repair Manual that's wrong, or just odd.

Here they show that there's a spacer washer underneath the INLET valve springs, but actually the spacers should be under the EXHAUST valve springs:



This is how it should be (I'm sure because it's how I've found factory-built engines):



Has anybody else noticed other inaccuracies or odd advice?

Since INTAKE valve has a bigger dia and therefore is heavier, it could be that this one needs more preload not to hang at high RPM...
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Old 07-23-2013, 05:46 AM   #7
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I'm lucky enough to have a new bike and therefore (hopefully) don't need a repair manual for a good while yet.

Saying that, my son had a problem with his GSX750 a couple of years back that required a top-end rebuild. I took to it like a duck to water with only a Haynes manual for reference.

I had a deja-vu attack midway through when I announced to him that "the last time I had to do this was 1986!"
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Old 07-23-2013, 05:47 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRupert View Post
KTM say:



Why must the sharp edges on all the disks point in the same direction? Which direction is best?

Why does the last lining disk need to be 'turned one meshing'?

Ignoring this advice makes absolutely no difference.
that is correct procedure for all the bikes with wet multiclutch,
last disc is turned to reduce the load on the splines and avoid breaking the tips with pressure from 2 discs
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Old 07-23-2013, 05:51 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yascher View Post
Since INTAKE valve has a bigger dia and therefore is heavier, it could be that this one needs more preload not to hang at high RPM...
But KTM do fit the spacer under the EXHAUST spring at the factory, and they do show that it fits under the EXHAUST in their fiche.

Either way, KTM are sloppy with their info.
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Old 07-23-2013, 06:01 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRupert View Post
Turning the last disk will not alter the load on the splines (outer basket) - the only difference is that the small crescent-shaped nick in the tab is not in-line with all the others.

I've never seen this mentioned in a Jap manual. The clutch plates are Japanese.
how many bikes have you taken apart before?
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Old 07-23-2013, 06:03 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRupert View Post
But KTM do fit the spacer under the EXHAUST spring at the factory, and they do show that it fits under the EXHAUST in their fiche.

Either way, KTM are sloppy with their info.
in your initial fische it shows preload on the INTAKE
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Old 07-23-2013, 06:10 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yascher View Post
how many bikes have you taken apart before?
Many. I have lost count.

Maybe you could show me a Jap manual where the same advice is given. I can show you at least one where it is not.
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Old 07-23-2013, 06:12 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRupert View Post
Why is it SO important not to tilt the cam-shaft when removing? There is no chance of damaging the bearing surface or cams. What do they mean?

It would have been nice if KTM had had the cam-lobes ground perfectly square in the first place!


If the cams are rolled over far enough to push down against the valve springs while you are torquing the bridge bolts you will destroy the bridge. Pretty simple.
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Old 07-23-2013, 06:17 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yascher View Post
in your initial fische it shows preload on the INTAKE
Yes, you are correct.

The first picture is from KTM's Repair Manual.

The second picture is from KTM's fiche.

Both diagrams are from KTM, yet they conflict. It's my point.
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Old 07-23-2013, 06:18 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by cross-country View Post
If the cams are rolled over far enough to push down against the valve springs while you are torquing the bridge bolts you will destroy the bridge. Pretty simple.
That's not what I'm complaining about. Please look at the last sentence.
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