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Old 03-29-2014, 09:47 PM   #1
Pete640 OP
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Rottweiler filter on CVs vs FCRs

It's obvious that the people who have changed over from the OEM styled CVs and airbox arrangement to the FCRs report a huge difference in performance
It's also noted from others and personally that the difference in airbox styled filtration vs the CPR system is also huge to the point of unbelievable in my instance
So my question now is what is the difference between the FCRs and the CPR CVs taking into account $$$ to change over and choke availability?
It appears to me that the OEM airbox is a huge drawback performance wise but for a mass produced emissions bike a necessity??
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Old 03-29-2014, 11:13 PM   #2
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The stock airbox is not that bad and will make as much bhp as the ITG/Rotweiler filters do. Main difference with those, is that it will take it slightly more time to get there. In other words, by deleting it you get a fair bit more 'snap' in throttle response at large throttle openings, but your top speed and power will remain the same, provided you tune for the same AFR in both cases.

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Old 03-30-2014, 06:18 AM   #3
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I'm sorry but I cannot agree with this
The AF ratio is just that a ratio. With the airbox+prefilter I was jetted at 152/155 so I could only burn a set amount of fuel which was limited by the jet size
Now the jetting is at 170/172 which allows me to burn more fuel due to the larger jets allowing more fuel through and hence more air if the ratios are the same. More fuel mixture will result in more power in this instance or so my mind had me believing. As for the throttle response I will agree with that tho
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Old 03-30-2014, 08:54 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete640 View Post
I'm sorry but I cannot agree with this
The AF ratio is just that a ratio. With the airbox+prefilter I was jetted at 152/155 so I could only burn a set amount of fuel which was limited by the jet size
Now the jetting is at 170/172 which allows me to burn more fuel due to the larger jets allowing more fuel through and hence more air if the ratios are the same. More fuel mixture will result in more power in this instance or so my mind had me believing. As for the throttle response I will agree with that tho
1)What pilot jets did you have with the 152/155 and what pilot jets did you have with the 170/172?
2)The amount of fuel through the mains has to do also with the vacuum sucking it, no?
3)My experience from a 990R with autotune has shown minimal fuel changes at WOT going from stock airbox to ITG using the same target AFR
4)If stock airbox restricts flow, how do you explain the fact that the 09 990R is 15bhp up from its predecessors, having the exact same airbox?
5)Last but not least, the snorkel opening area is large enough to feed a piston at a time.
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Old 03-30-2014, 09:36 AM   #5
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1)What pilot jets did you have with the 152/155 and what pilot jets did you have with the 170/172?
2)The amount of fuel through the mains has to do also with the vacuum sucking it, no?
3)My experience from a 990R with autotune has shown minimal fuel changes at WOT going from stock airbox to ITG using the same target AFR
4)If stock airbox restricts flow, how do you explain the fact that the 09 990R is 15bhp up from its predecessors, having the exact same airbox?
5)Last but not least, the snorkel opening area is large enough to feed a piston at a time.

I completely disagree... Jets are a restricted orifice that meter the amount of allowable fuel to pass through these will not have an adverse effect on Vacuum especially from the mains.

Why does a 990R make more power? Simple, tuning, more fuel + more timing= moper Bhp.

As far as Auto tune I would think that you would want the same target A/F ratio as before. The point of the open Intake is more free flowing air to maintain that A/F ration you would need more fuel if using an auto tune it would adjust for this by adding more fuel from monitoring the exhaust gas output.

As far as FCRs go I dont know what people are running for filters. Most the set ups I have seen use the little air filters they come with. I believe That these are not optimal for peak HP as Gregor proved this by running the out of the box set up on his carbed 990. The Velocity stacks played a big roll in the out put if I remember correctly.

Im not sure that the pros of the FCRs are out weighed by the cons... No choke, Picky with altitude changes and cold starts can be a bitch. I have been kicking around the idea still of putting carbs on mine just because of drive-ability over the EFI. I would not how ever go with the FCRs just for the reasons mentioned. True CVs are not the best for optimal performance but they are the best mechanical tool out there that can self compensate for altitude changes with out jetting changes. Simply doing so due to the atmospheric pressure vs Vacuum... If the air is too thin the diaphragm cannot pull the main throttle valve needle excreta which= less fuel by means of less opening of the main jet. FCRs are all mechanical... More throttle input = more air and more fuel but if the air is too thin due to altitude or too dense (low altitude temperature) your ratios are effected much more dramatically.

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Old 03-30-2014, 09:51 AM   #6
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I completely disagree... Jets are a restricted orifice that meter the amount of allowable fuel to pass through these will not have an adverse effect on Vacuum especially from the mains.
It is actually the other way round. The intake vacuum will affect the amount of fuel through the orifice. Now, whether the filter setup affects this vacuum, I am not sure.

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Originally Posted by spencergt66 View Post
Why does a 990R make more power? Simple, tuning, more fuel + more timing= moper Bhp.
More timing and more fuel needs more air to make more power, last time I checked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spencergt66 View Post
As far as Auto tune I would think that you would want the same target A/F ratio as before. The point of the open Intake is more free flowing air to maintain that A/F ration you would need more fuel if using an auto tune it would adjust for this by adding more fuel from monitoring the exhaust gas output.
You totally miss the point.
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Old 03-30-2014, 10:10 AM   #7
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Old 03-30-2014, 11:01 PM   #8
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I have 39mm FCR's with the velocity stacks on a 990 Super duke engine in an adventure frame.

I still only get to just over 200kph, as I did with the old 950 engine with CV's.

I just get there quicker though.
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Old 03-31-2014, 07:37 AM   #9
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I have 39mm FCR's with the velocity stacks on a 990 Super duke engine in an adventure frame.

I still only get to just over 200kph, as I did with the old 950 engine with CV's.

I just get there quicker though.
Are you running the Supplied k&N type filters stock box or?
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Old 03-31-2014, 01:07 PM   #10
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Are you running the Supplied k&N type filters stock box or?
The K&N oversize that Cosentino supplies for the velocity stacks. No air box. I use filter skins too.
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Old 04-07-2014, 12:04 AM   #11
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What about FCR's AND Rottweiler filter?

The first time I read about it, it seemed it was not possible - due to the cable routing on the FCR's (and the fact there are 2 sets of cables).
But, then, apparently, one is in the works - a cooperation between Consentino and CPR...
That said, its been quiet for a while...
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Old Yesterday, 03:37 AM   #12
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What about FCR's AND Rottweiler filter?

The first time I read about it, it seemed it was not possible - due to the cable routing on the FCR's (and the fact there are 2 sets of cables).
But, then, apparently, one is in the works - a cooperation between Consentino and CPR...
That said, its been quiet for a while...
Yes, It has been very quiet. Emailed Cosentino a couple of times two weeks ago for update on choke and CPR filter, but no response yet. Enyone else that have been in contact with him recently?
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Old Yesterday, 05:43 AM   #13
Pete640 OP
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My understanding was that Gregor was going to trial/error the choke jetting to a point where it was working and then some fine tuning. There was some discussion about using inmates to help with the development but that seems to have died a silent death
Chris was developing the Rotti filter for the FCRS. I wouldn't be upset that Chris hasn't responded.

But as yet I haven't heard from anyone who can directly compare both the FCR and rotti equipt CVs?
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Old Yesterday, 05:49 AM   #14
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My understanding was that Gregor was going to trial/error the choke jetting to a point where it was working and then some fine tuning. There was some discussion about using inmates to help with the development but that seems to have died a silent death
Chris was developing the Rotti filter for the FCRS. I wouldn't be upset that Chris hasn't responded.

But as yet I haven't heard from anyone who can directly compare both the FCR and rotti equipt CVs?
I have one SE with CV/rott and CJ jetting + one with 39 FCR with sudco plastic stacks and the small KN's ( Cosentino Stacks/KN' do not fit on SE) Actually the CV/rott feels sligthly more frisky, but that could be the 17' backwheel on this bike. Have not dynoed the bikes
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Old Yesterday, 06:13 AM   #15
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CV carbs have an auto enrichment effect caused by the CV slide.

You open the butterfly and this causes an increase in vacuum on the valve side of the slide because it can't keep up, the effect is to suck more fuel for a short moment until the slide catches up.

The old SU carbs worked the same but used a close fit and an oil damper and they have been proved time and again to make good power and be much easier to tune and more forgiving of tuning error.

The net result is that the FCR will make more power but only when tuned correctly, the CV carb is easy to tune so makes it best power more often and in a far greater variety of situations and it's this that makes it a better carb for the majority of us.

Personally I couldn't be bothered with the FCR's but thankfully due to the variety of life others can be

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