ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Orange Crush
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-29-2013, 08:16 AM   #1
uk_mouse OP
Aquatic adventurer
 
uk_mouse's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: UK
Oddometer: 1,421
Reducing fork stiction - ideas?

I've come to the conclusion that my forks are too sticky - they don't seem to react very well to small movements. And where they settle into a neutral position can be a couple of inches different depending on whether they were going from extended or compressed.

I read about removing the third bush from the fork leg (this is a 2004 S model, so 3 bushes plus a big spacer tube), and tried this but it gave what I thought was unacceptable play in the fork sliders.

So, are there any other ways I can address the problem? Different oil? Currently using Motul 5W oil, I have read suggestions that ATF can give less stiction. I've also got fork seal savers fitted (the neoprene tube type) which probably don't help matters.

I'm planning a quick service on the forks this week (new oil, clean seals etc) so thought I'd ask this question before I start just in case there's anything relatively easy I can try out.

Cheers all :)
__________________
"When compared to other motorists attempting to escape a zombie outbreak, dirt bike riders have a 23-to-1 survival rate." - The Zombie Survival Guide by Max Brooks
uk_mouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2013, 08:31 AM   #2
btao
Pwned
 
Joined: Jul 2013
Location: Not far enough...
Oddometer: 920
I use Manitou Prep M. Carryover from pedal power, but you will have zero stiction after. It's actually my go to grease for just about everything. Amazing stuff. Just apply liberally, preferably under the dust covers and then just pogo pogo pogo to work it down in there onto the bushings. Or you can take the fork apart, your choice. It's usually the seals that stick though.
__________________
"you opened your mind so far, your brains fell out"
_________________________
Current: '13 Tiger 800 XC, '09 Subi WRX, '11 405hp Sti (wifey's) Past: '74 Honda CB 360, '81 Yamaha 650 Special II, '01 Bandit 1200S, '07 Bandit 1250S
btao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2013, 08:55 AM   #3
Hootowl
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Bend Oregon
Oddometer: 1,213
Switching to SKF seals will help
__________________
Keep it Wild, Keep it Free

'07 990A
Parting '98 1100GS. Need Anything?
Hootowl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2013, 09:56 AM   #4
Konflict Motorsports
KM TUNER
 
Konflict Motorsports's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Redmond, Wa-Thousand Oaks Ca.
Oddometer: 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by uk_mouse View Post
I've come to the conclusion that my forks are too sticky - they don't seem to react very well to small movements. And where they settle into a neutral position can be a couple of inches different depending on whether they were going from extended or compressed.

I read about removing the third bush from the fork leg (this is a 2004 S model, so 3 bushes plus a big spacer tube), and tried this but it gave what I thought was unacceptable play in the fork sliders.

So, are there any other ways I can address the problem? Different oil? Currently using Motul 5W oil, I have read suggestions that ATF can give less stiction. I've also got fork seal savers fitted (the neoprene tube type) which probably don't help matters.

I'm planning a quick service on the forks this week (new oil, clean seals etc) so thought I'd ask this question before I start just in case there's anything relatively easy I can try out.

Cheers all :)

Honestly you have a multitude of options, and yes the early models have horrible issues with stiction.
I would immediately start by removing the 3rd bushing, and replacing the seals, wipers, and upper and lower bushings (can source directly through your local KTM dealer part # R14020 fork rebuild kit, you will have a few extra items as they are for the CC forks and comes with the SKF seals and much higher quality bushings)
I would recommend going with an oil like Maxima Racing fork fluid, or something along those lines. You do not need to spend $30.00 to $45.00 a quart on super slippery, or ultra slick fork fluid.
Having a local shop, or if you are capable of polishing the fork lowers along with doing all of the above mentioned mods will almost eliminate the stiction issues.
Getting rid of the 3rd bushing and sleeve immediately will be the starting point. As well toss the seal savers unless you clean them religiously.


Alex
__________________
Konflict Motorsports & Suspension www.KonflictMotorsports.com
The Heavyweights- http://youtu.be/rsz74wpatFo
Konflict Motorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2013, 02:53 PM   #5
D K
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: SoCal
Oddometer: 477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hootowl View Post
Switching to SKF seals will help
Make sure they are the green ones
__________________
"Did you see that?" "Yea I saw that. I did it" Bruce Willis
------------------------
’07 950SE for sale in Holland - sold
’08 950SE for sale in SoCal
’09 FE570 patiently waiting..
D K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2013, 04:10 PM   #6
Hootowl
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Bend Oregon
Oddometer: 1,213
Quote:
Originally Posted by D K View Post
Make sure they are the green ones
What is the life expectancy of those compared to OEM or another mfg?
__________________
Keep it Wild, Keep it Free

'07 990A
Parting '98 1100GS. Need Anything?
Hootowl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2013, 06:40 PM   #7
Konflict Motorsports
KM TUNER
 
Konflict Motorsports's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Redmond, Wa-Thousand Oaks Ca.
Oddometer: 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hootowl View Post
What is the life expectancy of those compared to OEM or another mfg?

Depends on where you are riding and how often you clean your bike really. I have some customers in the Southwest that have well over 100 hours of hard off road use without any issues, then again I have other customers in the PNW and Canada that have gotten around 50 hours of hard off road use, the reasoning is do you ride in extremely muddy conditions or the opposite?
The SKF seals are coming standard on most KTM models nowadays and even on the 2013 BMW F800GS as the went with the 43mm WP fork. They are the best on the market at this point and time.
I’ve tested every seal on the market, hands down these are what you should be running, period.
__________________
Konflict Motorsports & Suspension www.KonflictMotorsports.com
The Heavyweights- http://youtu.be/rsz74wpatFo
Konflict Motorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2013, 11:38 PM   #8
uk_mouse OP
Aquatic adventurer
 
uk_mouse's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: UK
Oddometer: 1,421
Thanks for the advice chaps.

I have recently replaced all the fork bushes, that's when I experimented with removing the 3rd bush and spacer - as I said I felt this gave unacceptable play in the fork. It did definitely reduce the stiction though!

But I'll try the other suggestions. I was in two minds about the seal savers anyway - do they keep the seals clean, or do they trap dirt and water?

Question - what would you use to polish the fork sliders? Simply metal polish, maybe followed by a coat of silicon spray?
__________________
"When compared to other motorists attempting to escape a zombie outbreak, dirt bike riders have a 23-to-1 survival rate." - The Zombie Survival Guide by Max Brooks
uk_mouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2013, 11:46 PM   #9
DesertSurfer
Tail sprayin
 
DesertSurfer's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: City of the Angels
Oddometer: 1,214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konflict Motorsports View Post
Honestly you have a multitude of options, and yes the early models have horrible issues with stiction.
I would immediately start by removing the 3rd bushing, and replacing the seals, wipers, and upper and lower bushings (can source directly through your local KTM dealer part # R14020 fork rebuild kit, you will have a few extra items as they are for the CC forks and comes with the SKF seals and much higher quality bushings)
I would recommend going with an oil like Maxima Racing fork fluid, or something along those lines. You do not need to spend $30.00 to $45.00 a quart on super slippery, or ultra slick fork fluid.
Having a local shop, or if you are capable of polishing the fork lowers along with doing all of the above mentioned mods will almost eliminate the stiction issues.
Getting rid of the 3rd bushing and sleeve immediately will be the starting point. As well toss the seal savers unless you clean them religiously.


Alex
Wow, great and timely post. Exactly what I was noticing with my 950 S forks. I've heard many guys refreshing their front suspension... I've not noticed any changes in my rear shock. Is there any periodic service required? Or do you just ride it until you blow a seal?
__________________
'"This whole memory lapse is gett'in to me. Hopefully I think I'll outgrow it."
DesertSurfer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2013, 07:10 AM   #10
Konflict Motorsports
KM TUNER
 
Konflict Motorsports's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Redmond, Wa-Thousand Oaks Ca.
Oddometer: 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by uk_mouse View Post
Thanks for the advice chaps.

I have recently replaced all the fork bushes, that's when I experimented with removing the 3rd bush and spacer - as I said I felt this gave unacceptable play in the fork. It did definitely reduce the stiction though!

But I'll try the other suggestions. I was in two minds about the seal savers anyway - do they keep the seals clean, or do they trap dirt and water?

Question - what would you use to polish the fork sliders? Simply metal polish, maybe followed by a coat of silicon spray?

For your peace of mind, I have removed the 3rd bushing and sleeve on well over 200 sets of forks without any issue's. This was the first thing almost every enduro/desert racer did on the smaller KTM's back in the day when the forks came out. It will not create intolerable slop, it will be in line with just about every other fork on the market.
I do not run seal savers, and we recommend against them unless you are religious about dropping them down and cleaning them otherwise mud will get packed in there and slowly destroy the seals and wipers.

To polish the lowers heres a quick video to see how we do it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp0u4WVX_TI
__________________
Konflict Motorsports & Suspension www.KonflictMotorsports.com
The Heavyweights- http://youtu.be/rsz74wpatFo
Konflict Motorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2013, 07:12 AM   #11
Konflict Motorsports
KM TUNER
 
Konflict Motorsports's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Redmond, Wa-Thousand Oaks Ca.
Oddometer: 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertSurfer View Post
Wow, great and timely post. Exactly what I was noticing with my 950 S forks. I've heard many guys refreshing their front suspension... I've not noticed any changes in my rear shock. Is there any periodic service required? Or do you just ride it until you blow a seal?

We recommend every 15,000 miles, or every other year as a service interval for front and rear.
__________________
Konflict Motorsports & Suspension www.KonflictMotorsports.com
The Heavyweights- http://youtu.be/rsz74wpatFo
Konflict Motorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2013, 09:16 AM   #12
uk_mouse OP
Aquatic adventurer
 
uk_mouse's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: UK
Oddometer: 1,421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konflict Motorsports View Post
For your peace of mind, I have removed the 3rd bushing and sleeve on well over 200 sets of forks without any issue's. This was the first thing almost every enduro/desert racer did on the smaller KTM's back in the day when the forks came out. It will not create intolerable slop, it will be in line with just about every other fork on the market.
Thanks for that. I've ordered some SKF seals, so when they arrive I'll strip the forks and experiment again with removing the 3rd bush.
__________________
"When compared to other motorists attempting to escape a zombie outbreak, dirt bike riders have a 23-to-1 survival rate." - The Zombie Survival Guide by Max Brooks
uk_mouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2013, 10:09 AM   #13
DesertSurfer
Tail sprayin
 
DesertSurfer's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: City of the Angels
Oddometer: 1,214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konflict Motorsports View Post
We recommend every 15,000 miles, or every other year as a service interval for front and rear.
What does a 15,000k service entail on a rear 950 Adv S shock? A drain, bushing inspection and recharge? Just asking.

Because when it comes to suspension servicing... I don't know Jack Shock!
__________________
'"This whole memory lapse is gett'in to me. Hopefully I think I'll outgrow it."
DesertSurfer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2013, 07:38 PM   #14
Konflict Motorsports
KM TUNER
 
Konflict Motorsports's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Redmond, Wa-Thousand Oaks Ca.
Oddometer: 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertSurfer View Post
What does a 15,000k service entail on a rear 950 Adv S shock? A drain, bushing inspection and recharge? Just asking.

Because when it comes to suspension servicing... I don't know Jack Shock!
A shock service entails a complete tear down and inspection of all wear items (shock shaft bushing, piston bushing, oil seal, dust seal), as well as a thorough inspection of the shim stacks to see if there is any distorted shims.
Once all items have been addressed we assemble the units without oil and use a vacuum bleeding/filling system to ensure all air is out of the shock.
__________________
Konflict Motorsports & Suspension www.KonflictMotorsports.com
The Heavyweights- http://youtu.be/rsz74wpatFo
Konflict Motorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2013, 07:50 PM   #15
azcagiva
new orange flavor
 
azcagiva's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Camp Verde, AZ
Oddometer: 1,130
Just thought that I would add, the forks will have a lot of sticktion if the front wheel is not re installed correctly in the forks.

-John
__________________
An Elefant never forgets.

www.Raceforthewounded.com
azcagiva is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 07:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014