ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Trials
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-06-2013, 06:18 PM   #31
Jonny042
Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Oddometer: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by thegraydog View Post
Since you mention it.... For all the classes offered, there are only four lines. Clubman looked easy to me, Support about right, Expert looked harder and more hazardous than our local events, and of course Pro is Pro.
I ride the support line, and most times I am over my head, but I've only been riding for 5 years. When I started riding Nationals the clubman line didn't exist, and I'm not going to drop down now. I believe in pushing myself (and sometimes my bike!). But it has really motivated me to become a better rider, and motivates me to keep coming back to see how I stack up to the rest of the field.

In my opinion (since I have one too:)) there are too many classes, and the clubman and support lines are slightly too easy. There have been many cases of people finishing the day with single digit scores on the support line. Same goes for the clubman line. I know, people want to have fun, and easy events are fun, but this is supposed to be national level competition - an example of the elite level of the sport, which we should be striving for.... isn't it?

If it were up to me there would be two senior classes, one for 50+ on the support line and one for 65+ on the clubman line. Does it really need to be broken down further than that? Look at the number of 35-49 year olds that could still be competitive in Sportsman as proof.

I would also eliminate the ES "line", which would be natural once the support line was up a little closer to EX, difficulty wise.

In summary, tightening up the steps between the CM, SP, EX, and PRO lines, so there was a logical and clear path to take to the top, would challenge people a bit more, motivate them to compete and participate.
Jonny042 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2013, 06:50 PM   #32
nwcycle
Beastly Adventurer
 
nwcycle's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Northern Illinois
Oddometer: 1,126
New classes?

As far as some class change ups, I feel I would ride the 50+ or sportsman line, I pretty much suck at Trials, but would never ride the clubman line as I feel that is for riders that have been only a year or two,
When I see the scoring come in at an average of 18-25 pts per loop, then see some OLDER guys who you know for a fact that have been riding for quite some time come in with single digits scores, not only ruins what I feel is a sport that relies on rider integrity and flushes it down the shitter....
I think they should limit that class to age 25-30 then those people need to ride the age class, and make room for the younger clubman riders who wish to prove their talents and progress without having to deal with fossils cherry picking the clubman line,
Especially one who podiumed in Az never showed for the Trophy, and won both days in N.M. Never showed for those awards?? Maybe embarrassed, who knows. but many felt it was pathetic........
nwcycle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2013, 07:13 PM   #33
thegraydog
2 wheels X 6 ways
 
thegraydog's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: the Coconino
Oddometer: 630
Well, so do the riders choose which line they want, and the points calcs account for different lines within a class?

I understand that a decent algorithm is impenetrable...
thegraydog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2013, 07:24 PM   #34
nwcycle
Beastly Adventurer
 
nwcycle's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Northern Illinois
Oddometer: 1,126
Yes,

Riders can choose any class they wish, If Pat Smage says he feels that the clubman line feels safe they pretty much have to let that person ride what ever they feel confident riding, without the different age classes etc and or gender...
nwcycle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2013, 09:09 PM   #35
lineaway
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Location: nm
Oddometer: 2,437
Along those same lines you could say Ray Peters has been sand bagging all these years in expert. Reality is most ex pro riders quit riding completly. Ray just kept riding. Imagine if all the pro`s who have quit would of just started riding expert? What a class that would be!
The nationals do have a problem with the age classes. Difficulty is not a problem. Numbers are the problem. If you are getting beat, ride better next year or change classes. I have finished with two points before and been 4th. The event was great, you should know the history of all these good riders before the sandbag excuse comes out.
When I first started out the nationals had one line and 2 classes! Almost every one rode the national class to be ranked. Maybe the few that rode the support class were sandbaggers or realists.
lineaway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2013, 09:37 AM   #36
nwcycle
Beastly Adventurer
 
nwcycle's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Northern Illinois
Oddometer: 1,126
Hey Line !!!

Hows things,,,, I was only talking about the clubman line, all others I have no clue who is who. but when you get a clubman guy ( or the few others ) who can clean a whole loop when all others are getting 15's well kind of makes you wonder.. Luck? I think not, then on top not have the self respect to even go get your award?
In all sports and competition there are benders and sandbaggers
nwcycle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2013, 10:38 AM   #37
Gordy
Team Listo
 
Gordy's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: NM
Oddometer: 22,184
FWIW, I've seen more sandbagging in trials than anything that I can remember.

...and for what?

......Don't say it Gordy............you'll just piss off a lot of people.
Gordy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2013, 10:46 AM   #38
lineaway
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Location: nm
Oddometer: 2,437
He rode our June event at Sipapu, and has the last three years. Clubman is the correct class for what he normally competes. Some people are competitive enough to turn it up a notch when needed. He was the only clubman rider to clean my section Sunday, but only once.
Results from June. http://www.newmexicotrials.com/

By the way I`ve had many clean loops at the nationals. I`d bet more than 20. Just ment the sections were rideable. ( I did ride ex-sports 1 year, no clean loop there!) Which actually makes for a harder trials mentally.
The rider mentioned always leaves asap after an event. We have many in our club that do this. Never have had that mentality. I`ve always been last to leave, just like Sipapu on Monday afternoon!
lineaway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2013, 10:50 AM   #39
lineaway
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Location: nm
Oddometer: 2,437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordy View Post
FWIW, I've seen more sandbagging in trials than anything that I can remember.

...and for what?

......Don't say it Gordy............you'll just piss off a lot of people.
That is why my son just skipped the ten baggers in Semi! In fact I`m the biggest one of all since I think that will be my next class !
lineaway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2013, 11:27 AM   #40
NMTrailboss
Team Dead End
 
NMTrailboss's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Oddometer: 5,970
Quote:
Originally Posted by lineaway View Post
In fact I`m the biggest one of all since I think that will be my next class !







__________________
NMTrailboss is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2013, 02:31 AM   #41
Twin-shocker
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2012
Oddometer: 1,673
Here in the UK we have 4 national championship series, with 2 being for older riders and or older bikes, and 2 for modern bikes, the easier one of which includes classes for older riders. The main modern championship series, is taken pretty seriously though, and there are no classes for older riders, and the severity of some sections on the championship route is approaching WTC standards.

The system here seems to work pretty well, and all national championship events are run using a 2 route format. I guess that system is never going to work in the US though, and get the feeling that laying out events on the easier side, is going to mean more riders, than making them harder, and perhaps catering for less than 10% of prospective entrants?
Twin-shocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2013, 10:09 AM   #42
BEEF706
King of the dumb dab
 
BEEF706's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: Rio Rancho NM
Oddometer: 696
I would like to chime in on the Clubman line, first off I am new to trials and also old (56). I went to my first national at Sipapu, and scored both days (great fun, and I learned a lot). As I was doing so I thought that I now have a new goal, I want to get to the point within two years where I can ride the Clubman line at a national (without maxing out every section). If you limit the clubman line to 25-35 years old, then old new guys have nothing to aspire to. Maybe you should limit the number of years competing instead.
__________________
NMOHVA Member NMTA Member
07 CRF450x, 04 Beta Rev3 270, 76 TY 175, I'm a dirty old man
A good friend will take you trail riding, an ADV friend will double back and say, "how did you get down there?"
BEEF706 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2013, 01:16 PM   #43
broncobowsher
Beastly Adventurer
 
broncobowsher's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: Baking in AZ
Oddometer: 1,419
There may only be 4 lines, but there are multiple classes that ride in the same line.
broncobowsher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2013, 03:49 PM   #44
flo10
Adventurer
 
flo10's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2013
Location: 2farSouthnMS
Oddometer: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twin-shocker View Post
Here in the UK we have 4 national championship series, with 2 being for older riders and or older bikes, and 2 for modern bikes, the easier one of which includes classes for older riders. The main modern championship series, is taken pretty seriously though, and there are no classes for older riders, and the severity of some sections on the championship route is approaching WTC standards.

The system here seems to work pretty well, and all national championship events are run using a 2 route format. I guess that system is never going to work in the US though, and get the feeling that laying out events on the easier side, is going to mean more riders, than making them harder, and perhaps catering for less than 10% of prospective entrants?
Yea, things are definitely different in the US than they are in the UK. It probably all comes down to population density and travel distance. The US has nearly five times the population of the UK; however, there are nearly eight times as many people per square mile in the UK as there are in the US. And the US probably has fewer trials riders than the UK. That's the main reason we have to do things differently in the US I suppose. If it wasn't so bone-chilling cold over there, I would consider moving.
flo10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2013, 10:57 PM   #45
nwcycle
Beastly Adventurer
 
nwcycle's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Northern Illinois
Oddometer: 1,126
Quote:
Originally Posted by lineaway View Post
He rode our June event at Sipapu, and has the last three years. Clubman is the correct class for what he normally competes. Some people are competitive enough to turn it up a notch when needed. He was the only clubman rider to clean my section Sunday, but only once.
Results from June. http://www.newmexicotrials.com/

By the way I`ve had many clean loops at the nationals. I`d bet more than 20. Just ment the sections were rideable. ( I did ride ex-sports 1 year, no clean loop there!) Which actually makes for a harder trials mentally.
The rider mentioned always leaves asap after an event. We have many in our club that do this. Never have had that mentality. I`ve always been last to leave, just like Sipapu on Monday afternoon!

I guess if you ride Sr Expert/ and Expert class in Oklahoma, it qualify s you riding the Clubman line
nwcycle is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 12:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014