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Old 08-15-2013, 01:38 PM   #61
_cy_
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Originally Posted by eatpasta View Post
thought we were talking about the original superbike? Essentially every racebike/superbike now is an evolved CB750 with the obvious exception of Ducati and Aprillia.
not really ... Brough SS100 certainly predated everything mentioned and ahead of it's time. don't forget Vincent Black Lightnings .. 150mph in 1948

there's probably other marques lost in history that was truly a superbike in it's era ...

for the modern era ... BMW R90S was the first production bike to put it all together and spawned a new category. now days ALL sportbikes has powerful disc brakes, excellent handling, powerful engine, wind tunnel fairing, etc.

R90S was the first to put it all together for the masses. helps that R90S won the first AMA Superbike championships. No homologation bikes necessary .. all early wins were done by privateers starting with a stock R90S. BMW has been scrambling ever since to chase down and purchase all those historical BMW airhead bikes for their museum.

Reg Pridmore winning R90S .. notice the anti-dive front brakes

_cy_ screwed with this post 08-15-2013 at 01:58 PM
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Old 08-15-2013, 01:53 PM   #62
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74 R90S came with dual disc brakes .. does anyone know of a production bike that came with dual disc earlier?

1973 Suzuki GT750
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Old 08-15-2013, 01:56 PM   #63
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1973 Suzuki GT750
first year of R90S was 1973 .. 74 was first year in USA. so dual disc brakes were first used in 1972 on test R90S. almost identical timeline to 73 Suzuki GT750 .. too close to call.

pretty safe to say R90S had better handling and aerodynamics than both CB750 and GT750. but in all fairness cost substantially more $$$. one of the most expensive bikes available at the time.

used to have a Kawasaki Mach III with 3x expansion chambers .. low 12 second 1/4 mile times, very fast at the time .. but was flat dangerous in certain handling situations other than a straight line.

_cy_ screwed with this post 08-15-2013 at 02:07 PM
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Old 08-15-2013, 02:08 PM   #64
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FWIW
Saw a CB750 today with about 10k miles on it. It had been sitting in a garage for the last 40 years and the guy decided to start riding it.

The rider was doing the ADV thing, checking out roads on his map. He and his friend had run into a dead end. Map said road, eyes said no way that is a road. They were discussing it when I came upon them. They were amazed at my R1200GSA. I was amazed at the CB750.

We exchanged stories and recommended roads to each other.
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Old 08-15-2013, 02:10 PM   #65
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What do disk brakes have to do with being a "superbike" ???

Oh, and lets not forget Guzzi's V7 Sport of 1973:

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Old 08-15-2013, 02:11 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by _cy_ View Post
...for the modern era ... BMW R90S was the first production bike to put it all together and spawned a new category. now days ALL sportbikes has powerful disc brakes, excellent handling, powerful engine, wind tunnel fairing, etc. R90S was the first to put it all together for the masses...
You must be a BMW fanboy . The MG Sport and Ducati 750SS debuted before the 90S.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _cy_ View Post
... helps that R90S won the first AMA Superbike championships. No homologation bikes necessary .. all early wins were done by privateers starting with a stock R90S. BMW has been scrambling ever since to chase down and purchase all those historical BMW airhead bikes for their museum.

Now this is a real stretch. The program was run by Udo Gietl, who never met a budget he couldn't bust . Parts he developed for the F750 racers wound up on Steve & Reg's 90Ss. Kudos for them for cheating better than the other guys (and everyone cheated).

BTW-- the reason the factory is trying to collect all of them is so people can't scrutinize them too closely


The 90S was a fine bike-- a little sloppy handling when pushed hard, but otherwise fast, comfortable, a decent stopper, and a very handsome and well built bike. No need to pretend it's more than that.
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Old 08-15-2013, 02:30 PM   #67
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Just for the sake of conversation-- follow this line of thought. I believe the first widespread use of the defined term "Superbike" was in the Cycle magazine article. They recognized that fast bikes had come out earlier at different times, but this was the time when the term joined the general motorcycling lexicon. From a personal pov, I was around back then and I never heard anyone use the term before then, but it's almost all I heard afterwards when fast bikes were discussed.

So, if we accept that time-frame and Cycle's definition, and we accept that Cycle made the right representative choices, the strongest case could be made for the Norton Commando as the first: since of the bikes tested it came out in 1967-- at least a year before any of the others.

Ipso facto, the Commando was the first superbike.


Of course, if you don't accept the Cycle reference, I guess you can argue your favorite to your heart's contentment back to the 1st motorcycle.
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Old 08-15-2013, 09:26 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by wpbarlow View Post
You must be a BMW fanboy . The MG Sport and Ducati 750SS debuted before the 90S.

Now this is a real stretch. The program was run by Udo Gietl, who never met a budget he couldn't bust . Parts he developed for the F750 racers wound up on Steve & Reg's 90Ss. Kudos for them for cheating better than the other guys (and everyone cheated).

BTW-- the reason the factory is trying to collect all of them is so people can't scrutinize them too closely

The 90S was a fine bike-- a little sloppy handling when pushed hard, but otherwise fast, comfortable, a decent stopper, and a very handsome and well built bike. No need to pretend it's more than that.
1974 was first year for 750SS, only 401 1974 Super Sports were produced. hardly a production bike. 73 MG 750 V7 Sport while a beautiful/fast bike doesn't come close to putting it all together like 73 R90S.

Ducati 750SS absolutely beautiful bike! .. super light at 330lb, more like a road legal race bike. who wouldn't want one?



yes program was run by Udo Gietl was backed by Butler and Smith. who understood advertising value of winning AMA Superbike Championships. however they did it .. R90S won the first Superbike Championship. forever staking claim to world's first Superbike.

what's not in question is 73 R90S was a true production bike that put it all together first. spawning off an entirely new category... Sportbikes ..

Udo Gieti BMW R90S








_cy_ screwed with this post 08-15-2013 at 10:14 PM
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Old 08-15-2013, 10:34 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by _cy_ View Post
1974 was first year for 750SS, only 401 1974 Super Sports were produced. hardly a production bike. 73 MG 750 V7 Sport while a beautiful/fast bike doesn't come close to putting it all together like 73 R90S.

Ducati 750SS absolutely beautiful bike! .. super light at 330lb, more like a road legal race bike. who wouldn't want one?

But, still a production bike. The bike in the photo has over 100,000 miles on it. I know the owner. I used to work with him. He has toured on it, road raced and ridden it daily.

Those BS BMW's were very heavily modified. They had vey little in common with the production version.
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Old 08-15-2013, 10:59 PM   #70
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But, still a production bike. The bike in the photo has over 100,000 miles on it. I know the owner. I used to work with him. He has toured on it, road raced and ridden it daily.

Those BS BMW's were very heavily modified. They had vey little in common with the production version.
NICE bike! I want one .. but 750SS at 401 produced, snowball chance in hell finding one, much less an affordable one.

R90S came out one year earlier than 74 750SS .. yup race version R90S was heavily modded, but what bike raced in Superbike category was not?

R90S with numbers of about 4,500 was truly a production bike. it's still the most desirable airhead from the 70's. funny how no one remembers who came in second...

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Old 08-15-2013, 11:41 PM   #71
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What do disk brakes have to do with being a "superbike" ???

Oh, and lets not forget Guzzi's V7 Sport of 1973:


Yeah, I was going to ask the same thing. Laverda had their own "Super-Freni" [Superbrake] SF in 1973 . They built anything that they felt was not available for outside purchase to their standard.
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Old 08-15-2013, 11:44 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _cy_ View Post
1974 was first year for 750SS, only 401 1974 Super Sports were produced. hardly a production bike. 73 MG 750 V7 Sport while a beautiful/fast bike doesn't come close to putting it all together like 73 R90S.

Ducati 750SS absolutely beautiful bike! .. super light at 330lb, more like a road legal race bike. who wouldn't want one?



yes program was run by Udo Gietl was backed by Butler and Smith. who understood advertising value of winning AMA Superbike Championships. however they did it .. R90S won the first Superbike Championship. forever staking claim to world's first Superbike.

what's not in question is 73 R90S was a true production bike that put it all together first. spawning off an entirely new category... Sportbikes ..

Udo Gieti BMW R90S









Production numbers have no influence of deciding the first Superbike.
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Old 08-15-2013, 11:56 PM   #73
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Production numbers have no influence of deciding the first Superbike.
if that's the case, then there's LOTS of full on race bikes that had it all put together decades before R90S. powerful brakes/engines, super handling, windtunnel fairing, etc

this 1950 MV Augusta 500 GP Moto GP bike certainly qualifies as a Superbike




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Old 08-16-2013, 02:40 AM   #74
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if that's the case, then there's LOTS of full on race bikes that had it all put together decades before R90S. powerful brakes/engines, super handling, windtunnel fairing, etc

this 1950 MV Augusta 500 GP Moto GP bike certainly qualifies as a Superbike



carcass always said the first was the Honda 450 twin, modern era, beat the larger capacity pommy bikes, did not leak oil or break down.

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Old 08-16-2013, 02:42 AM   #75
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Yeah, I was going to ask the same thing. Laverda had their own "Super-Freni" [Superbrake] SF in 1973 . They built anything that they felt was not available for outside purchase to their standard.
wasn't the 1200 the fastest bike for a while in the 70's. early busa, just kept accelerating ?
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