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Old 08-12-2013, 09:01 AM   #61
chazbird
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Drinking and driving is illegal. So is drinking as a passenger. Since using a cell phone while driving is the equivalent (or texting, more) of being DWI....stands to reason, huh?

Oh, and the argument is that the passenger with the cell isn't driving? But they are a distraction to the driver. Its not the dialing, texting (which is so bad) it is the transference of the attention out side the immemdiate sphere of the vehicle.

A newer mutli task study revealed: persons do task A, then do task B, which has a multi task element (and predictably do poorly here), then do A again, no multi tasking. They do worse the second time they do A. They are learning to be poorer performers. Is this the infamous El Dorado of "cells/technology/multi tasking" is making us stupid(er?).

I've been watching poor lane control over the last several years. Most of the time, early on, it was cell phone use and then texting. Now days I see both, electronic device use, and no device use, and poor lane control. I am thinking that is a product of the aforementioned study.
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Old 08-12-2013, 09:21 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by chazbird View Post
Oh, and the argument is that the passenger with the cell isn't driving? But they are a distraction to the driver. Its not the dialing, texting (which is so bad) it is the transference of the attention out side the immediate sphere of the vehicle.
Do you just make this stuff up???

So now you want to ban talking to passengers?

What about having children in the car? They're certainly a distraction.

You guys are making me shake my head in disbelief at your "logic".
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Old 08-12-2013, 09:51 AM   #63
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No, its not made up and its not logic. That's how humans process. They use language and tend to "fill in" or expect/anticipate when they can't complete the communication loop. IE, passenger talking on the cell phone...driver can't hear the others response and a part of their attention attempts to process that, not word for word, but its a blank space that is subtly being paid attention to - which is a version of multi-tasking, which is what we're not so good at. When the passenger is talking to the driver, and vice-verse, the communication is complete. Often a passenger may see something hazardous and even if they don't say something, they may blank out verbally which can shift the drivers attention to focus on the new visual information.

Argue with that if you want, but its true. (Yes, I am psychologist in human performance with a lot of experience just in this little realm)

No, this is not advocating a ban on passengers talking, or, as sometimes as a pleasant thought it might be, a ban on children in the car. Its that the cell phone use in cars should be banned. I sometimes sit quite uncomfortably when my friend drives with his hands free unit. He's not so great a driver to begin with and when using the phone the degradation in attention and control is immediately apparent.
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:06 AM   #64
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Argue with that if you want, but its true. (Yes, I am psychologist in human performance with a lot of experience just in this little realm)
I can't argue with that.
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:21 AM   #65
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I can't argue with that.
Yes, thank you, people like me with their fragile ego's so need need the bow downs, as I often imagine I am a bit of a Easter island stone statue.

Also; another example: Why does someone become annoyed when, for example, on a train, another person is on the cell phone to someone else? Its the same situation.
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:27 AM   #66
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Easy solution to the cell phone problem:
- Make using a cell phone while driving a felony
- make texting while driving a felony
- enforce the hell out of these new laws and take peoples licenses away
- if you are involved in an accident, subpoena cell phone records, if the driver was on the phone: felony and license lost - same as a DUI
- you kill somebody in an accident, were on the phone, distracted driving manslaughter charges with serious consequences

The State of Washington, for example, imposes life imprisonment for homicide by vehicle with DUI. Iowa imposes a 25 year sentence for homicide by vehicle-DUI.

Is this phone call really that important, or updating your facebook status, or getting that text message off?

If it seriously starts affecting peoples pocket books, and their legal ability to drive things will get better. If people still choose to do these things they can pay the price...
I'm good with all this...as soon as we legalize pot.
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:27 AM   #67
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Thread re-direct

I placed this in the "Perfect Line" to discuss strategies/reactions to a particular scenario, to wit: motorists who become seemingly agressive after being passed.

What do you do that works or doesn't work? How do you react to or avoid the situation? Etc.

There are some new and returning riders out there and on here who may benefit from such a discussion; I know that drivers in general are, or at least seem to me, more aggressive than when I first learned to ride 30 years ago.

Re: cellphones- I understand the various sentiments and personally agree 100% with shut the fuck up and drive approach, it just is not meant to be the topic of this particular thread.


Seems reasonable?
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:34 AM   #68
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I haven't experienced people becoming aggressive after being passed although I am sure it does happen. But I have noticed them being annoyed when passing them after they sit at a light on their phone, which may be evidence of the same mindset or reaction as straight up passing. So maybe that's where the cell phone divergence started (admittedly with my participation)...and maybe where it will end.
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:47 AM   #69
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You really don't have too many choices with a'hole drivers. Either speed up or fall behind.

I do know that the more years that go by I'm a little less inclined any way to be first. Plenty of times now if I get into a situation where there's endless packs of vehicles in front of me for miles on end and it would just be constant in and out passing I'll pull over and take a break for 5 or 10 minutes and let them all get far ahead. The hurry factor rides both ways. Us and them.
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:59 AM   #70
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In most places in the US the level of violence has decreased (homicide/assault/rape) and yet over the same time line the general feeling is of driving becoming more aggressive. That somehow doesn't make intuitive sense. There are no real stats on aggressive driving, at least those that don't end in a police report of some sort. Perhaps it is a conditioning, not unlike most people think violence is increasing (generally due to media over reporting) when its not. It would be very interesting indeed if there was a positive correlation to lower violence and driving aggression.
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Old 08-12-2013, 11:00 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_W View Post
I'm good with all this...as soon as we legalize pot.
I am onboard with that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozmoses View Post
I placed this in the "Perfect Line" to discuss strategies/reactions to a particular scenario, to wit: motorists who become seemingly agressive after being passed.

What do you do that works or doesn't work? How do you react to or avoid the situation? Etc.

There are some new and returning riders out there and on here who may benefit from such a discussion; I know that drivers in general are, or at least seem to me, more aggressive than when I first learned to ride 30 years ago.

Re: cellphones- I understand the various sentiments and personally agree 100% with shut the fuck up and drive approach, it just is not meant to be the topic of this particular thread.


Seems reasonable?

For the situation you outlined the only real solution is to ensure that you can make a clean pass without telegraphing your intentions, hang back a little, downshift, and get the hell around them and leave them a distance behind. Don't hang around to see how they feel about being passed. If you don't have the room or skills to pull this off safely, hang back and enjoy the ride at a slower pace; or do as mentioned above and pull over and take a 10 minute break.
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Old 08-12-2013, 11:39 AM   #72
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Like others have said, the strategy that works best for me is to pass as quickly as you can and put some distance between your rear tire and the passed car. If you get far enough away, they tend not to latch on to you. I have happened across a few shitwhistle aggressive drivers who either can't stand to be passed or maybe are in the mood to race. With these, either pin the throttle and leave no room for doubt (if on a fast bike) or just let them go on their shitwhistle way and drop back or turn onto a different road. It's really not worth fighting about, especially when the other person is bringing a big steel blunt instrument weighing a few thousand pounds to the fight.

Most of the time, it takes two to road rage.
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Old 08-12-2013, 12:05 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navy Chief View Post
Easy solution to the cell phone problem:
- Make using a cell phone while driving a felony
- make texting while driving a felony
- enforce the hell out of these new laws and take peoples licenses away
- if you are involved in an accident, subpoena cell phone records, if the driver was on the phone: felony and license lost - same as a DUI
- you kill somebody in an accident, were on the phone, distracted driving manslaughter charges with serious consequences

The State of Washington, for example, imposes life imprisonment for homicide by vehicle with DUI. Iowa imposes a 25 year sentence for homicide by vehicle-DUI.

Is this phone call really that important, or updating your facebook status, or getting that text message off?

If it seriously starts affecting peoples pocket books, and their legal ability to drive things will get better. If people still choose to do these things they can pay the price...
Here in MI, the enhanced penalties for DUI-homicide have just resulted in more hit-and-run incidents. The reasoning is that if the person can get away and hide for awhile, it's impossible to charge him with DUI. They'd rather take the hit-and-run charge because the penalty is a lot less. Many times, if the vehicle is undriveable, they'll take off on foot.
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Old 08-12-2013, 12:41 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Robert_W View Post
You really don't have too many choices with a'hole drivers. Either speed up or fall behind.

I do know that the more years that go by I'm a little less inclined any way to be first. Plenty of times now if I get into a situation where there's endless packs of vehicles in front of me for miles on end and it would just be constant in and out passing I'll pull over and take a break for 5 or 10 minutes and let them all get far ahead. The hurry factor rides both ways. Us and them.
This is wise. Also good is the idea of a re-route. If road A is busy, dip to road B.
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Old 08-12-2013, 12:48 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by chazbird View Post
In most places in the US the level of violence has decreased (homicide/assault/rape) and yet over the same time line the general feeling is of driving becoming more aggressive. That somehow doesn't make intuitive sense. There are no real stats on aggressive driving, at least those that don't end in a police report of some sort. Perhaps it is a conditioning, not unlike most people think violence is increasing (generally due to media over reporting) when its not. It would be very interesting indeed if there was a positive correlation to lower violence and driving aggression.


Hence the word play on passive-aggressive in the title.

I see plenty of people who get aggressive behind the wheel step out and morph to a mild mannered office worker.

Behind the wheel = a sense of power; otherwise, not so much.

I don't know, at some point everybody became a "gangsta", I guess; must've missed the memo. I've been flipped off by a woman who had to have been in her late 70's before, not riding, and she had failed to stop at a stop sign! What the hell is that & where do you go with it?
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