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Old 08-17-2013, 06:45 PM   #1
MotorCade OP
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Oddometer: 448
Elefant Clutch help

Long story short, I'm trying to bring my stable back to life - Guzzi came back from the shop with a new transmission last week, one Elefant is at my mechanic awaiting on electrical bits, and I've spent my day in the garage troubleshooting the other Elefant. That's the one I'm frustrated with.

Ok... so I got the 'Fant running again - bad battery and a bad CDI box were the culprits there. Happened to have a spare box. Checked all the other electrical connections and cleaned things up. Replaced the old rubber brake lines in the front with stainless steel lines. She is running great, and the front brakes are solid. BUT... nothing is easy.

My clutch feels like it hits a hard stop when I pulled in the lever, but I couldn't shift. The only way I can shift is to get the bike to a stop, turn it off, and rock it back and forth while I seek neutral. I can idle the bike at a stop, but I can feel that there is still a light load on the engine. While I think about it, I remember that this was happening before I parked the bike - consistently getting harder and harder to shift, worse when warm.

I replaced the fluid and bled the lines in the clutch slave cylinder (Paulimoto... the previous owner bought a lot of paulimoto billet, in fact) and no change in performance of the clutch. So I pulled the clutch cover. Not too dusty, but it's definitely time for a new clutch basket and plates - there is evident wear. It turned out the pressure plate and basket were also Paulimoto billet. The bearing seemed good - what else do I need to look for in there? I pulled the pushrod, it came out easily and looks to be in good condition. What is the end supposed to look like that pushes the clutch pressure plate open?

When I put it all back together, the clutch doesn't want to DISENGAGE now. I'm certain I put it back together right, I think something is binding. I have no idea what.

Need advice, Thanks!

Cade
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Old 08-18-2013, 02:04 PM   #2
nugentro
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It sort of sounds like there is still air in the system, try bleeing it again.

Also, you can start it with the clutch cover removed and then operate the lever to see what happens with the clutch pack. See if everything operates freely.
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Old 08-19-2013, 12:04 AM   #3
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No air in the system - it's rock solid (and besides, I vacuum bled it and I'm pretty good at getting all the air out) it was binding at the middle of the clutch travel.

I've operated it with the clutch cover off, it pushes the clutch pack out normally (or did, before I started screwing with it) and hits a hard stop - seems to be before where it ought to. The clutch basket and teeth on the disks are pretty badly worn. I'm going to try replacing those to see if it helps. Probably going to go ahead and replace the slave while I'm at it, it's not leaking, but it looks like it could soon. We'll see what happens.

Cade
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Old 08-19-2013, 07:03 AM   #4
nugentro
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I'm not sure what would cause "binding" unless if it is just severe wear, or something broke and is stuck between the plates.

While it is costly, I'd go ahead and replace the basket as well as the plates. While you are doing that change the seals on the push rod and behind the clutch basket and replace the through-out bearing.

Good luck
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Old 08-19-2013, 08:06 AM   #5
mark1305
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Check the clutch basket fingers for deep grooves worn in by the tabs on the clutch steels and friction plates. When they get bad enough they can affect engagement/disengagement. If the Paulimoto basket has bare aluminum fingers it will be worse.

On the Ducs I had, I ran either OEM steel baskets or the Barnett aluminum basket with steel protectors on the basket fingers. Even the OEM steel basket will eventually get grooves on the fingers.
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:15 AM   #6
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Ok, it sounds like I'm on the right track then, thanks guys! The baskets look very worn to me. Some of the grooves are 1.5mm deep. I just found a spec that said .75mm is max depth before replacement.

I'm probably going to get a replacement basket with the steel protectors along with a new clutch pack.
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Old 08-19-2013, 11:36 AM   #7
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I don't know what Barnett has to offer these days - been several years since I sold both Ducs. But I was real happy with their aluminum basket/SS inserts paired with what I want to say were aluminum friction plates with a red friction lining. The benefit of the lighter mass became very apparent shooting the "roller coaster" at Barber MSP - almost no gyro effect from the rotating clutch mass compared to stock.

The rattle/ringing gets a lot quieter too. (I ran vented clutch covers )
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:44 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotorCade View Post
Ok, it sounds like I'm on the right track then, thanks guys! The baskets look very worn to me. Some of the grooves are 1.5mm deep. I just found a spec that said .75mm is max depth before replacement.

I'm probably going to get a replacement basket with the steel protectors along with a new clutch pack.
Don't spend a lot of money on a release bearing from Ducati. It's an ordinary bearing, and you can get it cheaper at a local bearing retailer or from NAPA. Ask for a 6201-2RS.

To make it easier to thoroughly bleed the clutch master, replace the banjo bolt at the master with one that has a bleed nipple. There's almost always an air bubble at that location.
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Old 08-20-2013, 07:17 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttpete View Post
Don't spend a lot of money on a release bearing from Ducati. It's an ordinary bearing, and you can get it cheaper at a local bearing retailer or from NAPA. Ask for a 6201-2RS.

To make it easier to thoroughly bleed the clutch master, replace the banjo bolt at the master with one that has a bleed nipple. There's almost always an air bubble at that location.
A step ahead of you on the bleed nipple - but it's good advice to those that don't have this already.

AND, much obliged on the bearing part number. That should save me a few bucks!
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Old 08-26-2013, 12:31 PM   #10
falcn
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Dang 1.5mm of wear - no wonder it wouldn't disengage.

I just did mine.

Barnett basket (with steel finger guards), Barnett plate, Ducabike clutch pack, new OEM seals and orings (orings on the pushrod too), Motowheels spring retainers and pressure plate springs all combine to get me back on the road. This is all topped off by the MPL clear clutch cover in silver.


Pretty picture:


It was tough at first getting Neutral - but the plates just needed to bed. been great since I did this. It's quiet now actually.
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Old 08-27-2013, 09:39 AM   #11
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That's just plain gorgeous. Do you mind telling me where you sourced all the bits?
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Old 09-04-2013, 10:13 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by MotorCade View Post
That's just plain gorgeous. Do you mind telling me where you sourced all the bits?
I bought the Ducabike plate kit, MPL cover, and MotoMFG spring retainers from:

http://www.bellissimoto.com/ClutchIndex.html

I got the Barnett Basket and Pressure Plate from my local Ducati shop and used my 10% Ducati Owners Club discount. www.bmwpgh.com

One word of warning - it doesn't stay pretty unless you blow/clean the clutch dust off the inside cover about 1x a week.
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