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Old 09-03-2013, 10:07 PM   #76
Inane Cathode OP
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Originally Posted by dhallilama View Post
glad you got it running right again, if even it meant not finding the root cause (other than the whole carb).
Uhg, yeah. Nice to have it running, though. Got it all insured and registered today! I think i'll throw a bigger jet in it and go burn up a new spark plug :)
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Old 09-06-2013, 09:08 PM   #77
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Fighting pinging issues now, nothing too crazy. Reset the timing, put some premium fuel in it, still pings a bit, but the plug looked too light so i'll go up a couple more sizes :)
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Old 09-07-2013, 06:28 AM   #78
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Does it ping about 2K RPM and go away? Wide open or partial throttle?
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Old 09-08-2013, 01:58 AM   #79
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Its worth remembering that if you are using modern fuel, plug colour readings are not an accurate way of setting up carb jetting. Also worth bearing in mind that pinging generally occurs when motor is producing most torque, so in most cases changing main jet size wont make a lot of difference.
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Old 09-08-2013, 10:01 AM   #80
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Pings all over, mostly 2k and above, most consistently when i open the throttle all the way, and it's most severe when i crack the throttle. It's so evenly making the noise i'm not even sure it is actually pinging, might be an exhaust leak or something?

160 main is a little too big, i think i'll leave it with a 155. Needle feels a little too fat, i might try dropping it a clip to see if that'll straighten that out.

Still does this thing where it runs like crap until it warms up, then it starts with the pinging stuff. Timing is dead on, jetting is basically dead on, not sure what's up with that.

Another bizzare thing i noticed. On the highway at reasonably high rpm when i go to hit the horn it completely screws up the way it's running. Chuffing popping, loses a ton of power. What's up with that? I'm honestly baffled at why it would do that. It must be wired wrong, or something, but i can't think of how. Maybe the ground wire for the horn is hooked up to the kill switch wire to the cdi

I think priority wise, i need to figure out why it's making this pinging/rapping/knocking noise. The noise kicks up like a light switch when you open the throttle, doesnt get louder with more throttle it just either is making noise or is not making noise. Hmm.

Thanks for sticking with me through this thing, guys, i think it's kinda fun. Like a puzzle. Like a puzzle missing 8 pieces and a third of the pieces you do have are from a different puzzle
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Old 09-08-2013, 10:50 AM   #81
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The timing spec is for good fuel.......that is fuel not sold at pumps anymore. Retarding the timing a bit will help with the pinging. Or run race fuel.

And plug color is just fine to confirm jetting. It's just a different color.

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Old 09-08-2013, 11:09 AM   #82
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It's easy enough to pop the head off and have a look: detonation damage will look like some has been sandblasting the edges of the piston and the underside of the combustion chamber. First the ring lands will get pounded closed and trap the rings, causing lost compression and blow-by, and eventually the piston will get flattened and holed. Excess carbon buildup can also cause detonation as a glowing chunk of hot carbon acts as a glowplug and fires off the mix too soon, so (If you haven't already) removing the head would allow you to de-carbon things at the same time. It's possible you coked things up when running it with the faulty over-rich carburetor.

A rattling pipe can be ruled in or out during this as well, since the head pipe has to be removed (I think) to get the head off. you should be able to bonk it an find loose baffles that could be responsible for the noise.

And the horn thing is just odd.... if the horn works at all the only explanation I can come up with is you are providing a partial ground when it is energized- but how that would be siphoning of current from the ignition system is a mystery. My DT175 uses it's battery as a buffer for the charging system, but it has a points type ignition. It'll run without a battery but nothing else will work, and it'll fry all the bulbs. Is your battery in decent condition?

I have found it hard to read plugs with modern unleaded gas, and it is often easier to work down from over-rich. You could tune with race fuel, but a switch back to pump gas might require additional tweaking.
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Old 09-08-2013, 04:15 PM   #83
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It's easy enough to pop the head off and have a look: detonation damage will look like some has been sandblasting the edges of the piston and the underside of the combustion chamber. First the ring lands will get pounded closed and trap the rings, causing lost compression and blow-by, and eventually the piston will get flattened and holed. Excess carbon buildup can also cause detonation as a glowing chunk of hot carbon acts as a glowplug and fires off the mix too soon, so (If you haven't already) removing the head would allow you to de-carbon things at the same time. It's possible you coked things up when running it with the faulty over-rich carburetor.

A rattling pipe can be ruled in or out during this as well, since the head pipe has to be removed (I think) to get the head off. you should be able to bonk it an find loose baffles that could be responsible for the noise.

And the horn thing is just odd.... if the horn works at all the only explanation I can come up with is you are providing a partial ground when it is energized- but how that would be siphoning of current from the ignition system is a mystery. My DT175 uses it's battery as a buffer for the charging system, but it has a points type ignition. It'll run without a battery but nothing else will work, and it'll fry all the bulbs. Is your battery in decent condition?

I have found it hard to read plugs with modern unleaded gas, and it is often easier to work down from over-rich. You could tune with race fuel, but a switch back to pump gas might require additional tweaking.

Went out for an offroad ride today. It's not rideable, the running thing comes back with vengance while offroad. Extremely flat wide open throttle, chokey aweful running everywhere else. Doesnt change with jetting, didnt change with new plug, using the horn button acts like a rev limiter with higher RPM, at low rpm it doesnt do anything, but it does sound weird, kinda poppy instead of honkey.

No battery, all the bulbs are unplugged/burned out. Haven't gotten that far. The horn thing is friggen weird. It's supposed to be a separate circuit, i have no idea what the horn circuit would have anything to do with the ignition circuit.

The only thing i can think of is when you hit the horn button you're actually providing a ground for the source coil. At higher RPM you've got incoming power from the lighting coil hitting the incoming power that's trying to find a ground. Without a voltage potential, there's no current flow and no work gets done. I don't know, it's an idea.

Well, i really did think it was the carb, i didnt do any other work at the time so i dont know why it seemed to change so much. I'm getting the funny feeling i'll be building my own wiring harness for this thing ><

I'll do a little more intensive voltage drop tests. The horn thing is making me think i've got some goofy grounding problems going on in there. I'll collate the various diagrams i have and see if i can isolate what's going on here. Once again i feel like i'm sniffing down the right trail.
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Old 09-09-2013, 01:37 PM   #84
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Well, back to running shitty. Runs exactly the same with everything except the ignition plugged in. Pulls for just a second at low rpm then blubbers and four strokes it's way up to what feels like a rev limiter where it feels very flat.

Every coil ohms out as it should, runs the same with two different CDIs. Same with two different carbs. Made my own harness from the stator to the cdi to the coil, runs the same. Timing light says it bounces around quite a bit going up to the 'rev limit' then it goes full retard at high RPM, used two separate timing lights, both act the same. Once the bike is very warmed up it runs pretty good but pings quite a bit. Does not run worth a damn offroad. Hardly pulls, won't climb anything, four strokes very badly, completely unrideable.

I'm completely out of things to try on this bike, literally. Every single system has been checked, rechecked, and replaced with no change in how it runs except very minor differences in how it pulls. Totally out of ideas. I'm just about ready to throw this whole bike in the god damn garbage.

I'll guess i'll waste even more money and convert the thing to points. I'm sure it will run exactly the same anyway.
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Old 09-09-2013, 04:56 PM   #85
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any chance we can see the plug? i assume a reading will be impossible..

the only thing you haven't changed is the stator, i think you've changed ignition coil? plug wire, plug, and plug end? right?

if you put a fresh plug in does it work ok for a few seconds/minutes then revert back to shitty?

is it just loading up? can you turn the fuel off and it works again? silencer soaked? does it smoke abnormally?
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Old 09-09-2013, 06:19 PM   #86
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any chance we can see the plug? i assume a reading will be impossible..

the only thing you haven't changed is the stator, i think you've changed ignition coil? plug wire, plug, and plug end? right?

if you put a fresh plug in does it work ok for a few seconds/minutes then revert back to shitty?

is it just loading up? can you turn the fuel off and it works again? silencer soaked?

Plug was dark brown/black this time, new when i left. Was a tiny bit rich down here, brought it up to 10k feet, obviously ran rich then.

Fresh plug stays reasonably fresh through the whole ordeal, doesnt seem to be loading up. takes on color after 5 miles or so, doesnt look bad or soaked or black. Fuel off it runs great for just a second then dies, im thinking it's leaning way out and its easier to fire for those couple seconds.

Swapped coils with another bike, runs the same, swapped plug cap, runs the same, wire is built into the coil so that swapped along with the other coil. Only thing i haven't swapped is the stator.

If it still runs shitty with points i'm not sure what i'll do at that point, really. That would then be literally every system swapped out with no change.
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Old 09-09-2013, 07:51 PM   #87
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. That would then be literally every system swapped out with no change.
still bunches more things it could be...- bad crank seal(s), bad port hack job, piston in backwards(!) etc etc....
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Old 09-10-2013, 02:06 AM   #88
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As I suggested some while back, have you tried a carb which is either known to be working good, or is new? But seems to me that bearing in mind the horn issue, that the problem is more likely related to the electrics.

If it was my bike I would convert it back to inductive ignition, and fit a new OKO carb. I would guess an inductive system for a DT would be very easy to find in the US and new OKO carb is $50 from Ebay, so bearing in mind all the hassle you seem to be having, that might be worth looking at?
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Old 09-10-2013, 09:07 AM   #89
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As I suggested some while back, have you tried a carb which is either known to be working good, or is new?
reading is fundamental.
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Old 09-10-2013, 11:58 AM   #90
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Thought the OP had found a used carb from a bike breaker? Would be very difficult to know if a used carb was working properly or not, and a fair number of carbs are going to be blocked with Efuel residues.
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