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Old 09-13-2013, 12:53 PM   #61
Twoupfront
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stucknarut View Post
Fixed. Unless you actually meant to say you don't attempt to chastise people. In which case, good for you.
I don't know what you think you "fixed", but the point was and is that I neither resign, nor attempt to chastise people for not believing, supporting, and following the most idiotic among us. Unlike some of you. Did you manage to read the entire sentence this time?

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Old 09-13-2013, 01:07 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by waveydavey View Post
Yes, (you can learn all you need to know about motorcycling if you hang out in Tim Horton's and post in ADVrider.) Carry on.
I have no idea what you're trying to convey. Is it that most loud pipe equipped riders are in fact funtionally deaf?

Or that I should hang out in Timmies? (I don't, this was a once in a blue moon occurrence - not my type of place, actually).

[QUOTE=Red9;22322601]
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Originally Posted by Griffin44 View Post
I walked into a Tim Horton's coffee shop last weekend that was full of pirates. The guy behind the counter was trying to get the next guy in line to come up to order but the guy couldn't hear him. The server ended up waving his arms and yelling to get the guy's attention from 5m away.

I cracked to the pirate beside me that "loud pipes may sive lives but they don't help getting coffee". His response - "my ears ring for at least an hour after I get off the bike and I can't hear well at all" - surprised me quite a bit. This is common for these wankers?[/QUOTE]

No.
Most wankers are smart enough not to make smart ass comments to someone they don't know in a room full of people who might take offense.
Again, I'm failing to understand. So, you're saying the loud pipes don't affect hearing and the pirate I was talking with was an exception?

Or, that I shouldn't make a light hearted joke, that was appreciated by my neighbours in line. most of whom were pirates?

Or was it that many loud pipe folks are so sensitive about their irresponsible and annoying practices that they take offence when it is raised? Because otherwise, why would they take offence at my comment?

Interesting thread.
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Old 09-15-2013, 03:44 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Bloodweiser View Post
sometimes you don't know when it's needed.

I'm sure my mild slip-on has alerted some folks,
around a blind curve, that they shouldn't
pull out of their driveway, or cross street -
cause there's something super cool coming.
I'm sitting in Lake Placid as I type this. The rumble that is pervasive in this small town is nothing short of annoying, and the dirty looks towards the "bikers" rumbling and blipping through town is all I need to know that it is not worth the cost.

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Old 09-15-2013, 03:52 PM   #64
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Has anyone picked up on the downside that loud pipes prevent the rider from detecting what is around him?

Twice now, while driving a car, I have had loud pipe motorcycles change lanes towards me while I was pulling alongside them. Neither seemed to have a clue that they'd almost died. One guy pulled in front of me maybe 3 inches in front of my front bumper, the other almost hot my front fender. In both case emergency braking on my part saved their lives and they didn't seem to have a clue.
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Old 09-15-2013, 03:55 PM   #65
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5 pages................really?
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Old 09-15-2013, 08:52 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by viverrid View Post
Has anyone picked up on the downside that loud pipes prevent the rider from detecting what is around him?

Twice now, while driving a car, I have had loud pipe motorcycles change lanes towards me while I was pulling alongside them. Neither seemed to have a clue that they'd almost died. One guy pulled in front of me maybe 3 inches in front of my front bumper, the other almost hot my front fender. In both case emergency braking on my part saved their lives and they didn't seem to have a clue.
Apparently you didn't read the fine print, let me help you,

"loud pipes save lives"*


*"of riders with no situational awareness"
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Old 09-16-2013, 07:48 AM   #67
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I just knock em down in my pickup truck. Fuck your pipes and fuck you..
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Old 09-16-2013, 07:57 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Andyvh1959 View Post
HUH!?

SPEAK UP!!!

I always thought the same thing. I ride a quiet bike, with a FF helmet, behind a windshield, and my ears ring after a ride. Well, my ears ring all the time. But how can these guys really stand it? Baffles me.
Back in the 80's I read an article in some MC rag where a study was done to determine the noise level inside a full face helmet at highway speeds.

IIRC, the wind noise alone was in the range of 120db. I remember reading in the article that if this were a work environment OSHA would require hearing protection for exposure lasting over a few minutes.

Then, after noticing feeling a little strange after long hauls and having some trouble understanding folks, especially in noisy areas, I had my hearing tested. I was losing hearing due to the hours spent in the wind.

I've been wearing ear plugs ever since, and my hearing loss is something I'll have for the rest of my life.

Another aspect I realized since is that I'm no longer as stressed after eight or ten hours in the saddle. Used to be I had to wind down for hours after a ride as if I were amped up on coffee. I was often irritable and had trouble relaxing. This all went away once I began using hearing protection.

So, if the wind alone is enough to damage the hearing circuits, just imagine what adding additional frequencies and higher volume to the existing white noise mix will do for the ears, and the psyche.

No wonder the badass bikers are so mean. They are stressed and misunderstand what people say to them all the time.

Huh? What did you say about my sister?
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Old 09-16-2013, 08:27 AM   #69
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Funny, and ironic.

In my classes teaching MSF BRC and ERC we discuss techniques to reduce risk while riding. Occassionally I get the "loud pipes saves live" BS. To which I usually respond with, "we are not wasting time on that logic."

Now I think I'll use the response from above, "loud pipes save lives of riders who have no situational awareness," because it ties in so well with REAL techniques of: visibility, space cushion, lane placement, following distance, sightlines, looking ahead/all around, being ready, escape routes, etc. Doing all these for over the past 20 years of riding quiet bikes has proved to me that loud pipes is simply BS. That, and I ride abour four to five times more miles per year than the average loud piper. So I am in traffic more than they are, and yet I have no issues,....hmmmm.
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Old 09-16-2013, 09:54 AM   #70
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On the weekend I was driving through the city and could hear a Harley or Yamaha V-twin coming up alongside me on the outside lane. I had the windows open.
Never saved his life as I wasn't changing lanes but... If I hadn't heard him or if he happened to be in that momentary blind spot and someone not paying attention was about to, yes, it could have saved his life.

You see... life isn't about absolutes.

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Old 09-16-2013, 11:06 AM   #71
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(Edit: removed quote)

Based on this logic (Loud Pipes make things safer) the presumption is that having an inattentive driver hear you is the most important aspect of avoiding the "SMIDSY" incident.

This is funny to me as I've generally run pipes on the quieter side, though not always, and it has seemed to me the most important thing I could do was place myself in the lane where I can see the driver in their rear view or side mirror. If I'm not riding in that spot, then I get through the blind spot quickly being extra alert to the vehicle beside me. Always presuming that the driver does NOT see (or hear) me, while plotting extrication strategies should the worse occur.

Granted, pipes might be of some benefit on rare instances. Riding nude might offer similar benefits in other unique situations. Putting a propeller on top of the helmet might help too, on the rare occasion. None of these will always work, and at best will only seldom be effective. Loud pipes have the added benefit that, as a motorcycle ambassador, the loud pipe enthusiast will get the motoring public ever so slightly more annoyed with and caring less for the welfare of the motorcycling public. Gee thanks.

In every case it is situational awareness that will be of most benefit, and I think that many of those who have extolled the virtues of loud pipes as a safety measure to me, in person, seem to discount mirror strategies and SIPDE techniques in favor of the presumption that "my loud pipes get traffic out of my way." At least that is how it was presented to me by more than one LOUD rider. (L.O.U.D. - Largely Obnoxious, Unappreciated by Drivers )

Loud pipes probably work just often enough that it eventually develops into a false sense of security (please don't mention the Peltzman Effect) which reinforces eschewing the proven methods of accident avoidance to some degree, in favor of loud pipes, by the riders who fervently believe pipes are THE BEST answer to the question of "How can I be noticed more?". (this is both the increase in visibility as well as the ego-boosting LOOK AT ME aspects)

I've also seen drivers swerve away from a loud pipe wielding rider. Is it really safe to cause traffic to swerve into an adjacent lane? What if another rider is over there?

I'm all good with a nicely tuned, moderately loud exhaust. IMHO blaring open pipe riders do more harm than good in the bigger picture.

YMMV
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Old 09-16-2013, 11:46 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by tkent02 View Post
I just knock em down in my pickup truck. Fuck your pipes and fuck you..



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Old 09-16-2013, 11:52 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
Based on this logic the presumption is that having an inattentive driver hear you is the most important aspect of avoiding the "SMIDSY" incident.

This is funny to me as I've generally run pipes on the quieter side, though not always, and it has seemed to me the most important thing I could do was place myself in the lane where I can see the driver in their rear view or side mirror. If I'm not riding in that spot, then I get through the blind spot quickly being extra alert to the vehicle beside me. Always presuming that the driver does NOT see (or hear) me, while plotting extrication strategies should the worse occur.

Granted, pipes might be of some benefit on rare instances. Riding nude might offer similar benefits in other unique situations. Putting a propeller on top of the helmet might help too, on the rare occasion. None of these will always work, and at best will only seldom be effective. Loud pipes have the added benefit that, as a motorcycle ambassador, the loud pipe enthusiast will get the motoring public ever so slightly more annoyed with and caring less for the welfare of the motorcycling public. Gee thanks.

In every case it is situational awareness that will be of most benefit, and I think that many of those who have extolled the virtues of loud pipes as a safety measure to me, in person, seem to discount mirror strategies and SIPDE techniques in favor of the presumption that "my loud pipes get traffic out of my way." At least that is how it was presented to me by more than one LOUD rider. (L.O.U.D. - Largely Obnoxious, Unappreciated by Drivers )

Loud pipes probably work just often enough that it eventually develops into a false sense of security (please don't mention the Peltzman Effect) which reinforces eschewing the proven methods of accident avoidance to some degree, in favor of loud pipes, by the riders who fervently believe pipes are THE BEST answer to the question of "How can I be noticed more?". (this is both the increase visibility as well as the ego-boosting LOOK AT ME aspects)

I've also seen drivers swerve away from a loud pipe wielding rider. Is it really safe to cause traffic to swerve into an adjacent lane? What if another rider is over there?

I'm all good with a nicely tuned, moderately loud exhaust. IMHO blaring open pipe riders do more harm than good in the bigger picture.

YMMV
Wow...

Don't you find it ironic that all I pointed out was a situation where a driver could possibly hear a motorcycle before seeing it and you wrote a thesis on how motorcyclist's can't count on it happening again.... and yet later in your very wordy dissertation you state you've seen drivers swerve away from a "loud pipe wielding rider?"

Relax Suzie and step off your soapbox.
I never advocated for loud pipes.

Quit your frickin preaching.
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Old 09-16-2013, 12:08 PM   #74
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Wow...

Don't you find it ironic that all I pointed out was a situation where a driver could possibly hear a motorcycle before seeing it and you wrote a thesis on how motorcyclist's can't count on it happening again.... and yet later in your very wordy dissertation you state you've seen drivers swerve away from a "loud pipe wielding rider?"

Relax Suzie and step off your soapbox.
I never advocated for loud pipes.

Quit your frickin preaching.
I was just bored at work and feeling all eloquent and shit.
(in retrospect hitting quote to reply wasn't appropriate, your logic wasn't what I was questioning. Fixed.)

Actually, what I was pointing out was that motorcyclists can't count on it happening consistently.

Some put loud pipes on to get their strokes, others stroke the keyboard. Thanks for noticing! (didn't mean to wad any panties with all that)
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Old 09-16-2013, 01:14 PM   #75
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I certainly take notice of bikes with loud pipes, even when they're behind me (camping in my blind spot for some reason). So I think there is an element of truth to it.

But I am quite certain I, and everybody else, would take more notice if the rider had a lit flare shoved halfway up his ass. The difference being the lit flare up his ass would annoy only the rider while the loud pipes annoy everybody.

So I guess it isn't just about safety.
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