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Old 08-22-2013, 07:21 PM   #16
Commuter Boy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OaklandStrom View Post

A small Diesel would be nice, but the payoff would take forever
But that's not the only consideration buyers will take into account. If they did, most of the NA public wouldn't even be buying light duty pickups.

Is it cool? Yup, diesel trucks are cool to an awful lot of people who want a rough n'ready kind of truck.

Is there any hope of justifying it on a practical basis? Yup, theoretically if/when they need to tow/do long distances the mileage is there.

But the key thing is, will it have driveable TORQUE? HP wins races, but stump pulling, tire shredding torque will put a smile on driver's faces and those kinds of test drives will make sales. Most of the Ford Ecoboost purchasers I know quickly futz over the mileage claims or payback times and rave about how much fun it is to drive if you get on the boost
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Old 08-22-2013, 07:55 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by rocker59 View Post
A Durango with a Sprinter engine would be cool.
They did that it's called a Jeep Grand Cherokee.

Quote:
Originally Posted by acesandeights View Post
For $1300 you can get a gas engine in the Ram 1500 with significantly more horsepower and almost the same torque as their new diesel offering. It'll be difficult to sell the diesel in my opinion. The mileage difference has to be significant in order to get over the additional cost of diesel at the pump (where I live diesel is almost always more expensive). It's also been siginficantly more for a diesel engine at initial sale.

It's been hard to pencil a diesel over gas in a small truck. Makes much more sense when you're towing heavy (need the torque) and putting on significant miles (where the perception of diesel longevity plays into it).
Diesel engine 230hp and 420lb-ft... so yeah more horsepower same torque and 33% less MPG. The diesel is rated at 28mpg, the hemi is realistically 20mpg.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OaklandStrom View Post
I'm sure any small Diesel will be close to the same price as a full size. I just don't see them selling well.

A small Diesel would be nice, but the payoff would take forever
The dodge will be a base price of about $35k. No word on the Nissan.
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:07 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Range Motorsport View Post
...

Diesel engine 230hp and 420lb-ft... so yeah more horsepower same torque and 33% less MPG. The diesel is rated at 28mpg, the hemi is realistically 20mpg.

...
Where I live diesel fuel tends to be 10% - 25% more expensive than gasoline (mostly depending on the time of year) at the pump. At initial sale diesel engines can be 10x the price of a gas engine. As an example, and I know this is somewhat apples to oranges, the diesel option of a Superduty is over $8000 (edited to add the currently offered Dodge diesel is similarly priced).

If the Dodge 1500 diesel is even a couple thousand dollars more than gas, and the price at the pump cuts that fuel savings in half, it's going to be a hard sell. Even more so when the (horse)power of the Hemi is 65% more than that of the diesel and the torque is almost the same (395/410 vs 240/420).
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Old 08-23-2013, 06:13 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Range Motorsport View Post
They did that it's called a Jeep Grand Cherokee.

.
They are out there... yet I've heard just about nothing about them... Seem like they would be a nice rig... Jeep is making some nice looking Grand Cherokees now too...
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Old 08-23-2013, 07:43 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Range Motorsport View Post
Diesel engine 230hp and 420lb-ft... so yeah more horsepower same torque and 33% less MPG. The diesel is rated at 28mpg, the hemi is realistically 20mpg.
The real question is what's the difference in MPG while towing between these two engines in the same truck. I've run diesels in my trucks for over 15 years. Back when Ford was selling their Super Duty with the V10 I remember speaking with a few folks who and was amazed at the real drop in MPG they saw while towing verses what I got with the 7.3L PowerStroke engine.
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:36 AM   #21
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I used to be pretty active on Ford Truck Forums and have owned a V10 Superduty for over eight years now. I've heard and experienced the opposite. The mileage changes very little towing or not. With the available gearing (at least when I bought my truck) it actually has more horsepower and torque to the ground, with little to no drop in mileage. The V8 (gas) though did have a significant drop in mileage towing in the same truck.
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:49 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Commuter Boy View Post
But that's not the only consideration buyers will take into account. If they did, most of the NA public wouldn't even be buying light duty pickups.

Is there any hope of justifying it on a practical basis? Yup, theoretically if/when they need to tow/do long distances the mileage is there.

But the key thing is, will it have driveable TORQUE?
Yep. Those of us who tow with 1/2 ton trucks could see benefits with a small diesel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by McNeal View Post
The real question is what's the difference in MPG while towing between these two engines in the same truck. I've run diesels in my trucks for over 15 years. Back when Ford was selling their Super Duty with the V10 I remember speaking with a few folks who and was amazed at the real drop in MPG they saw while towing verses what I got with the 7.3L PowerStroke engine.
That, and what the torque is at 1,800 to 2,000 rpm, an engine speed that is common on the highway at 65mph to 70mph.

My GM 5.3 V8 makes 325 lbs/ft torque at 4,000 rpm. It turns 2,000 rpm at a tick over 70 mph.

I'm sure pulling my horse trailer would be a much more pleasant experience if I had a RAM with this new V6 diesel in a similar 1/2 tonnner.
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:02 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Range Motorsport View Post
They did that it's called a Jeep Grand Cherokee.
I meant the pick up. Dakota.
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:06 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by acesandeights View Post
I used to be pretty active on Ford Truck Forums and have owned a V10 Superduty for over eight years now. I've heard and experienced the opposite. The mileage changes very little towing or not. With the available gearing (at least when I bought my truck) it actually has more horsepower and torque to the ground, with little to no drop in mileage. The V8 (gas) though did have a significant drop in mileage towing in the same truck.
Just goes to show how hard it is to compare MPG numbers at the pump with other folks. The number I heard were 15 unloaded and 5-6 pulling a trailer with the V10. I got 17 empty and it would drop to 12-13 pulling. I went as low as 10 once and could swear I saw the gauge drop. When I pulled over for fuel I knew why. I was running into a 20+mph head wind.

I'm not doubting your experience here. I'm just relating my own.

It would be nice with this new dodge if someone could take two trucks with the different engines and perform some real side by side comparisons. Kind of like one of the magazines did with the Dodge, Chevy, and Ford. They took an 18,000 pound trailer and ran each of the trucks up and down I-70 from Silverthorne to the Eisenhower towel. Even though the Chevy was down on power compared to the Ford and Dodge, the Chevy pulled up the hill faster and came down the hill with the least number of taps on the brakes. It was pretty clear that Allison transmission was worth its weight in gold.
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Old 08-23-2013, 11:16 AM   #25
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I think I'd probably read that magazine article
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Old 08-23-2013, 11:48 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by McNeal View Post
They took an 18,000 pound trailer and ran each of the trucks up and down I-70 from Silverthorne to the Eisenhower towel.
I know I haven't been up there for a while but I didn't know they changed it
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Old 08-23-2013, 12:16 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by adam_c_eckhardt View Post

While hunting for Toyotas (both Tacoma and Tundra) I realized I could get an ecoboost F-150 for a little over $30,000- pretty much the same as a similar Toyota, with better fuel economy.
Good luck with that ecoboost fuel economy, we bought a brand new king ranch with that "eco" boost ford taurus SHO motor. Our average MPG ended up at 16 mpg, so we traded it for the Longhorn dodge ram with a proper V8
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:11 PM   #28
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Good luck with that ecoboost fuel economy, we bought a brand new king ranch with that "eco" boost ford taurus SHO motor. Our average MPG ended up at 16 mpg, so we traded it for the Longhorn dodge ram with a proper V8
Just filled up today- previous tank was 19.1 mpg.
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:22 PM   #29
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We had a Jeep Grand Cherokee in Canada a few years back and they are bringing it back for 2014. We have cheaper diesel at the pumps than diesel where I am, so we see a lot of Jetta diesels and a ton of "super duty" trucks around here. I was amazed to see in Europe all the cars, vans and trucks that have diesel, when North Amerika has few until recently.
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Old 08-23-2013, 02:18 PM   #30
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We've had diesel vehicles for decades, but in the US diesel fuel has been more expensive and diesel vehicles haven't been as cost effective, especially considering the relatively short time most people keep a vehicle. The initial option price of a diesel engine makes it difficult to justify if you're not keeping the vehicle long-term.
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