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Old 08-27-2013, 11:34 AM   #31
tkent02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeYZ View Post
Chances are, turning off your ignition key will deactivate the ABS system and you can lock'em up all you want. Works for my Tiger 800XC.
And if you're going down a hill like in the video, you don't need or even want the motor on anyway.
It works on the F800GS, too.

The one time I needed to do this, I didn't have a spare hand to turn the key for a few seconds. Steep hill, got up quite a head of steam in those few seconds with absolutely zero braking....

Plowing a dam of dirt in front of the tire isn't it, at least not always. It happens in solid rocks as well as hard packed washboards. It's just that the tire is not contacting the ground firmly, like in between rocks or washboards, the ABS detects this lack of traction and releases the brakes completely. You feel it in the levers. Like I said, ZERO brakes at times.
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Old 08-27-2013, 11:36 AM   #32
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I skimmed and didn't read through all the posts, but I can tell you that I spent the last 4 days riding over 400 miles of gravel is the Cherokee, Nantahala, and Pisgah National Forests on my Super Tenere, and not one time did I wish I was able to switch off the ABS. It worked flawlessly in every situation I asked it too. Steep up and down hills, loose gravel, hardpack, mud and wet clay. Don't listen to the BMW crowd. Maybe theirs doesn't work, but Yamaha nailed it.
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Old 08-27-2013, 12:04 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Icecold Dan View Post
Yamaha nailed it.
Turn it off and it's even better.
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Old 08-27-2013, 12:14 PM   #34
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I'm biased. I don't like my CAR to have ABS. All of us have a built in ABS system, called our brain. Learn proper braking and practice regularly, then it gets better.

I probably wouldn't buy a bike that I could not permanently disable the ABS on. I have driven a number of bikes with ABS, and I do not like it, as it's very tricky to find a braking limit when a computer decides where it is for you.
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Old 08-27-2013, 01:40 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Icecold Dan View Post
I skimmed and didn't read through all the posts, but I can tell you that I spent the last 4 days riding over 400 miles of gravel is the Cherokee, Nantahala, and Pisgah National Forests on my Super Tenere, and not one time did I wish I was able to switch off the ABS. It worked flawlessly in every situation I asked it too. Steep up and down hills, loose gravel, hardpack, mud and wet clay. Don't listen to the BMW crowd. Maybe theirs doesn't work, but Yamaha nailed it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
Turn it off and it's even better.
Have you tried the Tenere off road with the ABS on as well as off?
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Old 08-27-2013, 01:58 PM   #36
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I can't imagine wanting a system that can automatically turn off my brakes. Certainly not trail riding. I've never had a motorcycle with ABS but I would never pay extra for an ABS system. I like working my brakes on and off road, track or street. It's part of the fun of riding a motorcycle. Maybe if I rode a Gold Wing or something, but my bikes are all sporting machines.
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Old 08-27-2013, 02:40 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Nevada View Post
How important is it to be able to switch off the ABS for a rider that ISN'T imagining himself to be participating in the Dakar?
I've ridden many dirt road miles with my ABS on and many miles with the ABS off. I've been riding with a group and just simply forgot to turn the ABS off but I've learned to adjust. I found myself engine braking more often to help control my speed. My brakes worked fine for most of the stuff, so long as I wasn't running excessive speeds. For me, killing the engine is a last resort. I have 61K miles on my '06 F650GSA.

If you want an unsolicited opinion, read the "Angola It's Not Like They Said" ride report. Some of these guys grew so tired of turning the ABS on/off of their BMW Dakars, that they just left it on. It's a fascinating ride report and well worth read.

As an aside, a simple way to "turn off" the ABS, on an F650, is to move the sensor away from the wheel. The ABS light will glow but the ABS won't kick in. I did this on my last DS ride and it worked great. I zipped tied the sensor to behind the fork leg, pretty much out of harms way. I know, it's not a perfect solution but neither is my well ridden F650.

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Old 08-27-2013, 03:25 PM   #38
DAKEZ
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Have you tried the Tenere off road with the ABS on as well as off?
Yes. Granted it was not for very long but you can trick the Super Tenere into the ABS off mode. If only they had put a proper Chain final drive on the thing I may even own one.
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Old 08-27-2013, 03:54 PM   #39
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Yes. Granted it was not for very long but you can trick the Super Tenere into the ABS off mode. If only they had put a proper Chain final drive on the thing I may even own one.
Do you know why people stopped wiping their asses with the Sears & Robuck catalog?
I'll tell you why, they found something that works better, that's why.
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Old 08-27-2013, 04:11 PM   #40
Andyvh1959
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Originally Posted by Pantah View Post
I can't imagine wanting a system that can automatically turn off my brakes.
Its not that the ABS is turning the brakes "off" at any given time, it depends on what the ABS system is sensing with info from the wheel speed sensors. Putting it real basic, ABS tries to keep the wheels turning at all times within a speed differential thresehold, some wheel speed percentage slower than the actual bike speed. When I was working with Bosch, the differential was 20%, meaning for a wheel with the brake applied, if ABS sensed that wheel going more than 20% slower than the vehicle speed, ABS brake control is engaged until 1)the wheel speed matches the vehicle speed, or 2) the operator realeases the brakes.

So, any situation, WHILE braking, if a wheel remains turning slower than the thresehold value, ABS will engage/maintain control. A wheel sliding on pavement, asphault, concrete, dirt, gravel, sand, mud can cause ABS to engage. But moreso on a bike than a car, a wheel in the air, while brakes are applied even minimally, can slow the wheel beyond the thresehold very quickly and ABS will engage to release that brake. As long as the wheel does not speed up to match the vehicle speed, ABS control is engaged/maintained.

It gets real interesting if the bike also has ABS integrated into stability control, like it does on the later model GS. Stability control means the ABS is used to maintain tire contact, inhibit stoppies, etc. If the ABS senses the rear wheel is going slower than the thresehold value due to that wheel being in the air, ABS stability control releases the FRONT brake to bring the bike down. That is why ABS on a bike with stability control, in areas that can cause the rear wheel to go airborne (like over rocks) should also be shut off.

Perhaps the Yamaha Tenere doesn't have stability control and that may be why it works better off road.
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Old 08-27-2013, 05:01 PM   #41
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Its not that the ABS is turning the brakes "off" at any given time, it depends on what the ABS system is sensing with info from the wheel speed sensors. Putting it real basic,
Don't be such a dolt. You don't need to lecture me about your notion of technology. I live in snow country and all my cars have ABS that get triggered occasionally. I know what ABS is. I like my throttle, clutch and brakes.I like manipulating them for the conditions at hand. That is what motorcycling is to me.
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Old 08-27-2013, 05:40 PM   #42
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I have a Tiger 800XC with ABS. I've never bothered to turn ABS off and I've taken it in several off pavement excursions. Never felt the brakes pulsating or missing or anything. Although I'm not racing a Dakar, I've taken it to 70 mph on gravel roads. Like others mentioned, when on dirt I anticipate the necessary moves and I use engine braking in combination with front and back brakes as well.

On the video of the GS going down hill, it seems there was no engine braking whatsoever. The rider could have panicked and had his clutch pulled all the way in. I bet engine braking would have helped a lot.

Like others have mentioned, it may be more important to take a class on riding off pavement, ABS or not, before venturing out there.

And yes, ABS is always better to keep it off when on dirt. But I'm too lazy for that. And I just work around the issue.
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Old 08-27-2013, 05:47 PM   #43
DAKEZ
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Originally Posted by Icecold Dan View Post
Do you know why people stopped wiping their asses with the Sears & Robuck catalog?
I'll tell you why, they found something that works better, that's why.

You think a power robbing shaft drive works better than a chain?

Are you even aware of X-ring and O-ring chains? The ST would be a MUCH better bike with a chain.
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Old 08-27-2013, 06:30 PM   #44
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On the video of the GS going down hill, it seems there was no engine braking whatsoever. The rider could have panicked and had his clutch pulled all the way in. I bet engine braking would have helped a lot.
When picking your way down a steep descent In trail conditions (not dirt roads) the speed that a big dual sport with stiff road-oriented gearing would "engine brake" to is often faster than the rider wants to go.

Or to put it another way, just relying on engine braking and you'll go too fast. Brake without clutching and you'll stall.
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Old 08-27-2013, 06:53 PM   #45
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How practical is that? Have many folks done it?
Pretty freakin' practical if you or somebody you know can simply locate the correct wire, cut the wire, strip the new wire ends, solder or crimp terminals onto the new wire ends, then connect the terminals to a simple inline on/off switch. Remember to put the heatshrink over the wires BEFORE putting the terminals on the wires.

Radio Shack even sells a nice inexpensive push-button switch that can mount right into a simple hole drilled in a dash plate or a switchgear. Autoparts stores typically even sell lighted switches that are similar. They can mount all over. Really, any flat surface with enough protected space behind it for the switch will probably work. I'd probably take my switchgear apart and check for anything behind, then drill and mount a simple push-button switch there. Then it would be easy to access in an emergency.

Power gets to an ABS system through a simple, conductive wire. It isn't like the moto mfrs are using fiber-optic cable or magical unicorn hair or anything else supernatural or complicated. Wiring in a simple switch is usually so easy that the only drawbacks I can see to buying most bikes with ABS is the extra cost and the extra weight, but prices and weight for ABS are coming down as the technology evolves. Switching ABS off almost always still retains regular braking ability, but you'd know, for sure, as soon as you applied the brakes with the ABS power-wire disconnected. 'No need to cut anything until you're sure. I'm pretty sure though, because a mfr would have a HUGE freakin' lawsuit if somebody's ABS fuse blew and caused them to lose normal braking ability.
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