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View Results: Are you ATGATT?
Dunno, dont care. Biker gear for me. 4 1.01%
Maybe a helmet, maybe not. I dress for the weather and my destination. 6 1.51%
I dress for the weather and my destination, and always a helmet when on the road. 28 7.05%
Usually a helmet, motorcycle jacket and gloves, but don't make a big deal about gear. 48 12.09%
Most of the gear, most of the time. 130 32.75%
ATGATT..... all the gear, always. 163 41.06%
ATGATT plus; all the recommended gear then some. 18 4.53%
Voters: 397. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-09-2014, 08:07 AM   #61
NJ-Brett
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After almost 40 years of riding on the street, last year I got a mesh jacket with armor.
Helmet always, the rest of the stuff for the weather.
The mesh is nice to keep the bugs off, but I still often use just sun block duing the daytime.
Not wearing much gear reminds me not to take chances on the street.
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Old 06-09-2014, 02:07 PM   #62
pne
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There's so many possibilities! Why would anyone intelligent want to go through all that rehabilitation for a second time, or the first?

I remember ignoring a toothache, the pain would come and go. Then one day, the pain turned to agony. Eventually I had no choice but to go to the dentist and have the tooth pulled. One lesson I learned was to have it checked right away, and I won't have to experience that torment (hopefully) ever again.

If I had went through a second toothache, ignored it, experienced all that inconvenience for a second time, what does that make me? A complete idiot, because I failed to learn the first time around.

In my opinion, if a person gets hurt, heals, and doesn't use the tools available to prevent or at least minimize the carnage and it happens again.. complete idiot, indeed. Unless they don't feel pain like me, or get some strange thrill from rehabilitating their body, then my theory is just full of holes, and around we go.

PCP - Pain controls people
well, when I was young I would always skin my knees and elbows tripping over my own feet or falling off my bicycle. You bet they hurt as I sat crying on the sidewalk for my mommy. Yet to this day, I still run and walk without wearing knee and elbow pads.
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Old 06-09-2014, 02:21 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Friz Freleng View Post
Wine country here. Drunks, tourists, addled old drivers, farm vehicles and tour buses...for me it's full gear all the time even on short rides where I live. I can get so hot in my black leather that I think I'm gonna melt. I don't care...sweating beats skin grafts any day.
I used to ride a lot around napa and berryessa when I first moved here. You couldn't pay me to go back there nowadays. For the same reasons. Geriatric wine tourist in a mini van are like a death missile for the motorcyclist

I'm only an hour away but you Bay Area guys got it way worse. You guys must know it because almost everyone I see riding in the bay is in full gear. Compared to midtown sac where you see idiots on panigales wearing tank tops and flip flops. I'm serious too. I counted 5 panigales one day only one rider was even wearing jeans. Fucking nuts.
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Old 06-09-2014, 02:38 PM   #64
wjfawb0
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I'm ATGATT. It's hot, but I had road rash from a bicycling lowside in college. That sucked a$$ even at 15-20mph. I do not want to experience it again.

Here's a fun picture from South China I took a few years ago, Qing Xi to be exact:

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Old 06-09-2014, 04:49 PM   #65
Neal J Hinerman
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Originally Posted by pne View Post
well, when I was young I would always skin my knees and elbows tripping over my own feet or falling off my bicycle. You bet they hurt as I sat crying on the sidewalk for my mommy. Yet to this day, I still run and walk without wearing knee and elbow pads.
So you're saying that falling down while walking is equal to a 100 kph crash on a bike in terms of the amount of injury inflicted on your body?
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Old 06-09-2014, 09:48 PM   #66
GypsyWriter
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I always ride in my gear, except for pants. I've got the jacket, boots, full-face helmet and gloves, but have never found a pair of motorcycle pants that fit me right, so have always lacked that one piece of gear. Otherwise, it's ATGATT.
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Old 06-09-2014, 10:27 PM   #67
pne
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Originally Posted by Neal J Hinerman View Post
So you're saying that falling down while walking is equal to a 100 kph crash on a bike in terms of the amount of injury inflicted on your body?
I'm saying I've been doing both long enough to have some confidence in my ability not to face plant. If I'm going to be riding like an idiot, I put on my leathers. If I'm going for a walk and it's icey out, I will put on a pair of winter boots.
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Old 06-10-2014, 12:59 PM   #68
VTphoneman
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I'm Motgatt. Commuting Im all the gear, long rides all the gear, down to the store though I might leave off the overpants. Which is why I'm in the market for some kevlar pants with knee armor. I really just hate the swish and sweating while walking around the store.
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Old 06-10-2014, 01:47 PM   #69
catweasel67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pne View Post
I'm saying I've been doing both long enough to have some confidence in my ability not to face plant. If I'm going to be riding like an idiot, I put on my leathers. If I'm going for a walk and it's icey out, I will put on a pair of winter boots.
I'm also pretty confident in my ability not to crash....my guess is almost every rider believes themselves to be capable, right up until they're not.


But let's assume you're truly capable of never making a mistake that requires ATGATT...are you as confident in the ability of others? I'm not.

ATGATT. It's not conditional.
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Old 06-10-2014, 02:00 PM   #70
Ginger Beard
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Originally Posted by catweasel67 View Post
I'm also pretty confident in my ability not to crash....my guess is almost every rider believes themselves to be capable, right up until they're not.


But let's assume you're truly capable of never making a mistake that requires ATGATT...are you as confident in the ability of others? I'm not.

ATGATT. It's not conditional.

I think many folks understand that at some point they may crash but they have decided simply to risk it for whatever reason. Their right to do with their lives as they please. It might not make sense to you or I or be a choice that we would make but I don't begrudge them for their choice nor do I believe them to be less intelligent than the ATGATT crowd. I have met plenty of complete ATGATT fuckwhits that have made me wonder why the hell they bother with all the gear or any for that matter...Especially a helmet.
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Old 06-10-2014, 08:10 PM   #71
pne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catweasel67 View Post
I'm also pretty confident in my ability not to crash....my guess is almost every rider believes themselves to be capable, right up until they're not.


But let's assume you're truly capable of never making a mistake that requires ATGATT...are you as confident in the ability of others? I'm not.

ATGATT. It's not conditional.
it's not about never making a mistake, it's about weighing the risk and making your own decision. This is why they don't equip commercial airplanes with parachutes, or why they don't build levies and dams to withstand 1000 year floods. There is always a chance that the worst case scenario can happen.

The biggest misconception that ATGATT sheep seem to have is, there is no downside to wearing gear. But it adds to rider fatigue. The bulkiness, restriction of airflow, restriction of movement, all contributes to tiring you out. Reducing your mental state of alertness, your focus and concentration. Without a doubt that is the most important aspect of riding, your brain controls your hands and feet which control the bike.

I make a decision before I ride. If it's 100 degrees out I am not going to be in full leathers. When I'm swimming in sweat, vision blurred, suffering from heat stroke, am I really safer for having worn the gear? Or is a mesh jacket more appropriate?

Then there is the argument how effective your gear really is at protecting you. It's all to easy for us to follow the trend. I assume a lot of you believe that a jacket, gloves, pants, and boots constitute "full gear". But what is "full gear"? It is already a compromise between comfort and protection. How many of your jackets have effective spine guards? Rib and chest protection? Do your pants have effective hip armor? Do the knees have bracing along with padding? How about the boots? Do they have protection against crushing, flexion, and impact?

From an engineers point of view, most of the gear I see on the market today falls short. It's mostly designed to prevent light abrasion from the fall, and light impact to the joints, elbows/knees. This is good for preventing road rash. But let's be realistic here, if you are hitting a stationary or oncoming object at speed, your chances of survival are slim. That fabric or leather with CE elbow pads and knee pads isn't going to do a dam thing. The only thing that will save your ass is that thing between your ears that you rely on to not make mistakes. I don't usually post in ATGATT threads because people will get defensive when they hear something they don't like. I welcome intelligent debate on the topic, but far too often it comes back to strawman arguments of "you can't predict the future" type comebacks. I wish more people would realize how limited protection our gear really provides.
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pne screwed with this post 06-10-2014 at 08:17 PM
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Old 06-10-2014, 08:25 PM   #72
pne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GypsyWriter View Post
I always ride in my gear, except for pants. I've got the jacket, boots, full-face helmet and gloves, but have never found a pair of motorcycle pants that fit me right, so have always lacked that one piece of gear. Otherwise, it's ATGATT.
this is how I typically ride, but from my years of racing I can say that one of the most important pieces of gear we wear are a good set of leather pants. I've fallen.. a lot, and if you saw my leathers it's very specific how they are worn. 90% of the abrasion is in the hips, butt, lower back/side, and elbows. This is naturally how we fall in a lowside. I know if I go down in jeans, it's not going to be pretty.


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Old 06-10-2014, 09:45 PM   #73
JonU
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I'm in the ATGATT crowd. Especially after my crash a couple weekends ago. Was riding out in the desert and took a trip over the bars at about 45mph or so. The only injuries I received were 4 stitches, very minor scrape on my left hip, a lot of bruises, and one good concussion. I'm positive that if I hadn't been wearing my gear it would have resulted in a much different outcome. My Jersey is absolutely trashed, my helmet is tore up, and my gloves are ruined, but everything did it's job. Not a scratch on my hands, my armored compression jacket thing did it's job, my padded shorts did their thing, the pants don't even appear to have a scuff, and while a little more scuffed up, my boots definitely did a great job protecting my ankles and feet.
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Old 06-10-2014, 09:58 PM   #74
JonU
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pne View Post
I make a decision before I ride. If it's 100 degrees out I am not going to be in full leathers. When I'm swimming in sweat, vision blurred, suffering from heat stroke, am I really safer for having worn the gear? Or is a mesh jacket more appropriate?
I don't really have an argument against the rest of what you had to say, but this part I seriously do have a point to discuss. If you get yourself in that position riding in full gear, then more than likely it is eventually going to happen regardless of what you wear. If you know you are sweating profusely and aren't actively doing something about it (i.e. replacing fluids AND electrolytes) then you are going to eventually become a heat casualty no matter what you are wearing. The mesh jacket may feel cooler, but that is because instead of the sweat being trapped against your body, it is evaporating more easily. The gear I wear is pretty light, I have a pair of Klim Mojave pants, a compression style mesh armored jacket, a pair of armored shorts, and a pair of Forma Predators. I tried to get it as light as possible due to the summer heat here in El Paso. Every time i go out for a ride I carry plenty of water and snacks in my backpack and take lots of breaks to make sure my vision doesn't become blurry or suffer from heat stroke (which if you've reached heat stroke you already missed the first two stages of heat injury and are in dire need of immediate medical attention). Again I have no argument with your stance on how much gear, just the heat injury portion.
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Old 06-10-2014, 11:35 PM   #75
catweasel67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pne View Post
it's not about never making a mistake, it's about weighing the risk and making your own decision. This is why they don't equip commercial airplanes with parachutes, or why they don't build levies and dams to withstand 1000 year floods. There is always a chance that the worst case scenario can happen.

The biggest misconception that ATGATT sheep seem to have is, there is no downside to wearing gear. But it adds to rider fatigue. The bulkiness, restriction of airflow, restriction of movement, all contributes to tiring you out. Reducing your mental state of alertness, your focus and concentration. Without a doubt that is the most important aspect of riding, your brain controls your hands and feet which control the bike.

I make a decision before I ride. If it's 100 degrees out I am not going to be in full leathers. When I'm swimming in sweat, vision blurred, suffering from heat stroke, am I really safer for having worn the gear? Or is a mesh jacket more appropriate?

Then there is the argument how effective your gear really is at protecting you. It's all to easy for us to follow the trend. I assume a lot of you believe that a jacket, gloves, pants, and boots constitute "full gear". But what is "full gear"? It is already a compromise between comfort and protection. How many of your jackets have effective spine guards? Rib and chest protection? Do your pants have effective hip armor? Do the knees have bracing along with padding? How about the boots? Do they have protection against crushing, flexion, and impact?

From an engineers point of view, most of the gear I see on the market today falls short. It's mostly designed to prevent light abrasion from the fall, and light impact to the joints, elbows/knees. This is good for preventing road rash. But let's be realistic here, if you are hitting a stationary or oncoming object at speed, your chances of survival are slim. That fabric or leather with CE elbow pads and knee pads isn't going to do a dam thing. The only thing that will save your ass is that thing between your ears that you rely on to not make mistakes. I don't usually post in ATGATT threads because people will get defensive when they hear something they don't like. I welcome intelligent debate on the topic, but far too often it comes back to strawman arguments of "you can't predict the future" type comebacks. I wish more people would realize how limited protection our gear really provides.
If doesn't help your cause of having intelligent discussion if you kick off with "ATGATT sheep" :p

As for the rest, I hear what you're saying as to what ATGATT really means. Obviously you could keep adding bits until you can't move so there has to be a compromise. I've chosen my compromise - so I wear gear to cope with a low speed crash (30 mph or under) that's gonna involve (or may) some sort of impact. Why 30? Quite simply because it represents the high risk area - in a city, loads of other road users, multiple-junctions. As you said, you can't, and shouldn't, plan for everything - you'd either never move or it'd be prohibitively expensive.

BTW - if you're suffering "heat stroke" in your gear, the chances are that you need to drink more, not wear less.
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