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Old 09-16-2013, 07:24 AM   #1
henrybayuzick OP
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Eh? No spark. Boyer brandsen ignition. How to test?

Hey everyone,

I've got a 78 R60/7 that's dual plugged. Recently I tore it down to make some modifications to it, and in the process I rewired it from scratch using the M-Unit.

When I purchased the bike, it had a Boyer Brandsen electronic ignition setup, with 2 red Dyna coils. All of that wiring I kept in place. So currently it is ignition switch start -> starter relay -> starter and all other functions.

Here's the problem: no spark. Being my first build, I'm looking for some guidance on how to test where the problem lies. I'd like to determine if it is an error on my part (wired incorrectly) or if it's the ignition unit, coils, etc failing. The bike did run before I tore it down and I've retraced through several diagrams and everything looks correct.

Where should I start and what kind of resources/images can I provide this community to help better understand my problem so you are able to put me in the right direction? I appreciate the time.

Thanks.
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Old 09-16-2013, 07:51 AM   #2
Stan_R80/7
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Here is a link to the instructions for installing a Boyer-Brandsen igntion. It sounds like you have either the MKIII (KIT00098 (BOX00024)) or micropower (KIT00286 (BOX00237)) ignition for the pre '79 2V Boxers. I expect an email to their technical support may be useful for a specific (technical) question. Reading and following the instructions for installation should help. Good luck!


Edit: the micropower uses specific coils and is the most modern unit, so it is unlikely that is what you have, the micro digital (KIT00086 (BOX00037)) uses standard or red dyna coils. So the most likely suspects for what Boyer unit you have are the MKIII and the micro digital. The MKIII has only one black wire to the stator.

Stan_R80/7 screwed with this post 09-17-2013 at 04:42 AM
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Old 09-16-2013, 01:00 PM   #3
henrybayuzick OP
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Originally Posted by Stan_R80/7 View Post
Here is a link to the instructions for installing a Boyer-Brandsen igntion. It sounds like you have either the MKIII (KIT00098 (BOX00024)) or micropower (KIT00286 (BOX00237)) ignition for the pre '79 2V Boxers. I expect an email to their technical support may be useful for a specific (technical) question. Reading and following the instructions for installation should help. Good luck!
Thanks for the resources. I studied those all day yesterday and it seems as if all is correctly connected. The only one I can't completely confirm is how it is hooked to the stator. Anybody have pictures of how theirs is? The unit was installed before I bought the bike.

If all is connected correctly, what would be the next step? How could I test each part of the setup for failure?
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Old 09-16-2013, 06:07 PM   #4
bmwrench
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IIRC, "scratching" the stator leads together is supposed to cause the black box to trigger the coils.
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Old 09-16-2013, 07:30 PM   #5
pommie john
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What kind of Boyer? Analogue or digital?

With the old analogue Boyer you should get a spark when you switch off the ignition.
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Old 09-16-2013, 07:33 PM   #6
pommie john
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henrybayuzick View Post
Thanks for the resources. I studied those all day yesterday and it seems as if all is correctly connected. The only one I can't completely confirm is how it is hooked to the stator. Anybody have pictures of how theirs is? The unit was installed before I bought the bike.

If all is connected correctly, what would be the next step? How could I test each part of the setup for failure?

It's just one wire going into the beancan. It is earthed ( grounded) through the beancan body. Make sure that the little screws that hold the stator plate into the beancan are clean and corrosion free because they are your earth connection.

That's for the analogue Boyer. It may be the same for the digital but I don't know.


I have soldered an earth onto the stator plate of mine which connects through the ring terminal you can see in this shot. I did that because it got a poor earth on those little screws when they got corroded.

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Old 09-16-2013, 10:51 PM   #7
Rob Farmer
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If it has one wire then it's probably an early unit. Is it a black control box?

They make a micro digital unit with a twin plug curve that would be a much better solution, those early units have a poor curve that doesn't suit anything
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Old 09-17-2013, 12:03 PM   #8
henrybayuzick OP
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Thanks for all the replies. I forgot to specify the box. It's box00024 or the mkIII. It's the electronic ignition. I'll take pictures of each part of the system once I get home for everyone to look over.

I'm wondering if there is no spark due to the ignition box failure or if its something else that is wrong. I'm just not sure how to go down the line and test each part for success.

bmwrench: mind expanding on your reply a bit more? It looks like I have one black wire that goes through a tube, and then is soughered to the stator. Maybe I'm missing something all together.

Thanks again for the replies.
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Old 09-17-2013, 03:45 PM   #9
pommie john
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OK it's an analogue Boyer.

You should get a spark when you turn the ignition off.

If you don't, disconnect the stator wire and try again. If you now get a spark you've got a stator problem.

From memory there should be around 120 ohms across the stator pick-up coils. That is, you disconnect the stator wire and put one lead of a multimeter on that, and one lead on ground. There should be around 120 ohms.
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Old 09-18-2013, 02:29 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henrybayuzick View Post
Thanks for all the replies. I forgot to specify the box. It's box00024 or the mkIII. It's the electronic ignition. I'll take pictures of each part of the system once I get home for everyone to look over.

I'm wondering if there is no spark due to the ignition box failure or if its something else that is wrong. I'm just not sure how to go down the line and test each part for success.

bmwrench: mind expanding on your reply a bit more? It looks like I have one black wire that goes through a tube, and then is soughered to the stator. Maybe I'm missing something all together.

Thanks again for the replies.
On the early boyers there was an issue with corrosion on the back of the stator board. You got a poor ground connection and it wouldn't work. Supposedly improved on later models. But it wouldn't hurt to pull the stator and look on the back as well as clean up the block behind it.
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Old 09-18-2013, 02:35 PM   #11
Rob Farmer
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Fault finding guide on boyers website http://www.boyerbransden.com/html/fault_finding.html

To be honest the later units so much better its probably doing you a favour

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Old 09-19-2013, 12:02 PM   #12
henrybayuzick OP
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Thanks for tips. I'll try these this weekend. Rob Farmer, what ignition do you recommend? I don't mind buying a new one.
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Old 09-19-2013, 02:27 PM   #13
regomodo
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Originally Posted by Rob Farmer View Post
Fault finding guide on boyers website http://www.boyerbransden.com/html/fault_finding.html

To be honest the later units so much better its probably doing you a favour
What's the later unit? I have the mk3 and can't say I like it; very tacky looking, poor build, and bike runs like crap with full-advance @3500rpm. It's also a pain to start the bike with it in the cold. I had to back off the timing to stop it pinging.
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Old 09-19-2013, 02:31 PM   #14
pommie john
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What's the later unit? I have the mk3 and can't say I like it; very tacky looking, poor build, and bike runs like crap with full-advance @3500rpm. It's also a pain to start the bike with it in the cold. I had to back off the timing to stop it pinging.
Time it at 5000rpm. It keeps advancing until at least 5000.
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Old 09-19-2013, 02:54 PM   #15
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Time it at 5000rpm. It keeps advancing until at least 5000.
Ah right. The guide says ~3500 and the first time I went out the bike lugged nicely but wouldn't rev out (pinging). I took some allen keys, went to a quiet industrial estate and backed off the timing until it stopped pinging. I'll see where I've ended up sometime (my garage is surrounded by houses and my bike is loud). It runs fine now, just starting the bike is an issue sometimes. It was push & go when I had points on, even in sub-zero temps.
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