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Old 09-19-2013, 11:22 PM   #16
Rob Farmer
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The black box units are just a linear advance that doesn't seem to suit anything. The micro power units are sweet with a curve that suits the airheads a treat.

I agree with the comments about the control box. They are a pain the arse to mount properly.
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Old 09-20-2013, 05:09 AM   #17
chasbmw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regomodo View Post
Ah right. The guide says ~3500 and the first time I went out the bike lugged nicely but wouldn't rev out (pinging). I took some allen keys, went to a quiet industrial estate and backed off the timing until it stopped pinging. I'll see where I've ended up sometime (my garage is surrounded by houses and my bike is loud). It runs fine now, just starting the bike is an issue sometimes. It was push & go when I had points on, even in sub-zero temps.
Your rev counter is not always the best tool to time a Boyer. Set it on the F mark when you see it stops advancing. Even with standard pipes it's quite a noisey process.
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Old 09-20-2013, 01:45 PM   #18
rheritage
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Originally Posted by henrybayuzick View Post
Hey everyone,

I've got a 78 R60/7 that's dual plugged. Recently I tore it down to make some modifications to it, and in the process I rewired it from scratch using the M-Unit.

When I purchased the bike, it had a Boyer Brandsen electronic ignition setup, with 2 red Dyna coils. All of that wiring I kept in place. So currently it is ignition switch start -> starter relay -> starter and all other functions.

Here's the problem: no spark. Being my first build, I'm looking for some guidance on how to test where the problem lies. I'd like to determine if it is an error on my part (wired incorrectly) or if it's the ignition unit, coils, etc failing. The bike did run before I tore it down and I've retraced through several diagrams and everything looks correct.

Where should I start and what kind of resources/images can I provide this community to help better understand my problem so you are able to put me in the right direction? I appreciate the time.

Thanks.
My 72 R75 has a Boyer, the control box has an inline fuse, not sure if yours does but worth a quick check, you never know.

Good Luck,
Rich
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Old 09-28-2013, 08:18 PM   #19
henrybayuzick OP
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As I was working through this today, my starter got jammed and it looks like I'll be ordering a new one. The bike has 68k miles, so I guess it is time.

In the meantime, would anyone mind explaining the process for spark and possibly recommend an optimal ignition setup for a dual plugged system? I'm considering starting fresh. Before my starter got jammed, I was starting to think that maybe I had hooked the coils up incorrectly. I assume they are supposed to be wired in parallels, but I don't know a thing about ohms, etc. I think my lack of knowledge is hindering me from finding the cause behind no spark.

I don't really understand advance, curve, etc relative to ignition, and what electronic ignition eliminates, and how a dual plugged system affects the above. I just want the best setup.

So a recap: I've currently got a boyer brandsen mk3 electronic ignition (black box) and two red dyna coils, I couldn't find the exact pair I have anywhere online. No spark, despite going through various diagrams, cleaning the stator, "scratching" the leads, etc. However, I wasn't able to power a light bulb from the starter relay wire that would normally go to the electronic ignition... so there may be a problem there.

I appreciate all the wisdom. I've got quite a bit of learning to do.
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Old 09-29-2013, 03:15 AM   #20
pommie john
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If you mean the brown Dyna coils ( they're a sort of browny/orangy/red colour) they should be wired in series. They are 1.5 ohms and you need around 3 ohms for the Boyer. This means all the spark plugs fire at once every time a piston reaches TDC ( actually just before TDC, but you get the picture).
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Old 10-05-2013, 12:31 PM   #21
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Eek

Okay. New starter is in and running flawlessly.

I may have gotten down to the bottom of this no spark issue. Here's what I've found from a handful of multi-meter readings.

Here's the diagram I am using (2nd page): http://www.boyerbransden.com/pdf/KIT98.pdf

1. Started with a freshly charged battery.
2. 12 volts are coming from the ignition switch into the starter relay.
3. When I press the start button, the starter relays clicks on enabling the starter and telling 12 volts to go through a green wire to the Boyer Brandsen transistor box, this green wire is split into two ends, one goes onto the left coil, and the other goes into the transistor box.
4. I take a reading of one end of the the green wire as the other end of this same green wire is disconnected, the reading says 12 volts. So for example, one end is going to the coil, the other ending is going nowhere. The wire going to the coil reads 12 volts.
5. Here's where things get weird: When both ends of the green wire are connected, one to the coil, the other going into the transistor box, each wire reads 6 volts. Therefor, only 6 volts is going into the left coil. bingo, that's why I'm not getting spark. The questions is: why?

In addition, I measured the red/yellow wire coming out of the transistor box that attaches to the right coil. ~2-3 volts.

What's the next step? Is it just a bad box or is something wired incorrectly? I'll gladly take some pictures if it helps.
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Old 10-05-2013, 03:47 PM   #22
pommie john
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The first thing that strikes me is that it need 12v all the time, not just when you hit the starter button.


Make sure your coils are in series as shown in the diagram and then make sure it has 12v all the time the ignition is switched on.

If it has, then turn the ignition on and off and you should get a spark as it switches off.

Forget the starter for now, just turn it on and off and see if it sparks.
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Old 10-05-2013, 06:24 PM   #23
henrybayuzick OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pommie john View Post
The first thing that strikes me is that it need 12v all the time, not just when you hit the starter button.


Make sure your coils are in series as shown in the diagram and then make sure it has 12v all the time the ignition is switched on.

If it has, then turn the ignition on and off and you should get a spark as it switches off.

Forget the starter for now, just turn it on and off and see if it sparks.
Weird, the previous owner must have made some changes. It was working before I tore it down, I could have mixed some things up. I'll try your suggested configuration now, and take some readings. Thanks for the help. If you've got any other pointers, let me know.
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Old 10-05-2013, 06:39 PM   #24
henrybayuzick OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henrybayuzick View Post
Weird, the previous owner must have made some changes. It was working before I tore it down, I could have mixed some things up. I'll try your suggested configuration now, and take some readings. Thanks for the help. If you've got any other pointers, let me know.
Another look at this http://www.omnilex.com/public/bmw78/78r100wire.jpg shows that the coils are directly wired to the relay. These colors match up exactly, as does their configuration in my relay. So how are the coils getting constant power while the power is on if the only connection to the coils is from the starter relay?

Sorry if this is not obvious.
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Old 10-05-2013, 07:59 PM   #25
Steve W.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henrybayuzick View Post
Another look at this http://www.omnilex.com/public/bmw78/78r100wire.jpg shows that the coils are directly wired to the relay. These colors match up exactly, as does their configuration in my relay. So how are the coils getting constant power while the power is on if the only connection to the coils is from the starter relay?

Sorry if this is not obvious.
Follow the current path from the battery. You will see the path is from the ignition switch and the kill switch on the handlebar. The connection at the starter relay supplies the relay coil. When ign. switch is on and kill switch on the green wire circuit should have 12vdc to ground. The stock coils are actually 6 volt but connected in series so that each coil sees only 1/2 of the voltage. The circuit is completed to ground - by the points or in your case the boyer. When the circuit is opened by the points or boyer the flux field created in the coils primary windings "collapses" into the secondary winding and the high voltage pulse fires the plugs. I hope this helps.
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Old 10-05-2013, 08:27 PM   #26
Stan_R80/7
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The wiring diagram shows the coils are getting power (green wire is 12V) when the ignition is on and the kill switch is set to run. The green wire going to the starter relay powers the starter relay. If the green wire voltage at the coils drops below ~ 12V then a switch or wire connector is corroded. The starter relay does not power the coils and the starter relay is not part of the supply to the coils.

The Boyer (and every other electronic ignition) is sensitive to voltage. This means a good battery is needed and a voltage drop will cause issues. The green wire should always have 12V with the ignition on and the kill switch set to run.

The red/yellow wire is connected to the same coil terminal as that for the tachometer or points (contact breaker) as shown in the Boyer diagram. If the green wire to the coils that also powers the Boyer ignition voltage drops to 6V, then that needs to be fixed before trying anything else. Good luck!
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Old 10-05-2013, 10:54 PM   #27
henrybayuzick OP
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Talking

Spark! Beautiful, beautiful spark!

Thank you so much Stan, Steve, and everyone else.

So here's how it's hooked up:
I've got a wire from the on position off the ignition switch going straight to the left coil, 12 volts is going in, jumps to the next, and out and grounds to the boyer.

But, now there are two blue/green wires that are coming out of the starter relay ones goes nowhere, and the other is just grounded, which is required for the starter to crank. What should I do with the one that goes nowhere and what is its original purpose?

Second questions, how often should it spark while cranking?

Again, thank you so much!
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Old 10-05-2013, 11:11 PM   #28
Plaka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henrybayuzick View Post
Spark! Beautiful, beautiful spark!

Thank you so much Stan, Steve, and everyone else.

So here's how it's hooked up:
I've got a wire from the on position off the ignition switch going straight to the left coil, 12 volts is going in, jumps to the next, and out and grounds to the boyer.

But, now there are two blue/green wires that are coming out of the starter relay ones goes nowhere, and the other is just grounded, which is required for the starter to crank. What should I do with the one that goes nowhere and what is its original purpose?

Second questions, how often should it spark while cranking?

Again, thank you so much!
Now that you know it works, you can wire it up correctly.

green from the fuse block feeds the kill switch. it turns into green/blue after the kill swith (because it is now a switched wire) and does a three way split in the harness and feeds the coils, the starter relay and the buzzer relay if you have one. It goes on after the starter relay to feed the dash indicator lights. So one wire into the starter relay is the power going in and the other, connected right to it, is the power going on to the dash.
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Old 10-06-2013, 06:15 AM   #29
Beemerboff
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As Rob has already said, you still want to change the Boyer analogue black box for a digital red one with a dual plug curve - Gremlin Racetech in England can get the box only for you and their postal charges are reasonable.

Then it is probably best to have the timing set on a" bike" dyno.
You only need to do it once, it makes a huge difference when it is right, and it will probably save its cost in fuel consumption alone, PDQ .
I get 21km/l plus on my hard ridden twin plug 1000 cc G/S with the stock 37/11 rear end.
And excellent performance, of course.

There are dozens of theories on timing for dual plugs, but you dont need to know any of them - Boyers current curve is right and the dyno guy will put it at the right place for you and your bike. Full stop.
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Old 10-06-2013, 08:30 AM   #30
henrybayuzick OP
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Originally Posted by Beemerboff View Post
As Rob has already said, you still want to change the Boyer analogue black box for a digital red one with a dual plug curve - Gremlin Racetech in England can get the box only for you and their postal charges are reasonable.

Then it is probably best to have the timing set on a" bike" dyno.
You only need to do it once, it makes a huge difference when it is right, and it will probably save its cost in fuel consumption alone, PDQ .
I get 21km/l plus on my hard ridden twin plug 1000 cc G/S with the stock 37/11 rear end.
And excellent performance, of course.

There are dozens of theories on timing for dual plugs, but you dont need to know any of them - Boyers current curve is right and the dyno guy will put it at the right place for you and your bike. Full stop.
Would you mind giving me a little more information on the red box? I'm in Mississippi, USA.

Also, if you don't mind, what is a "bike" dyno? And how can I learn more about this process. Would love to get this bike running the best that it can.
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