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Old 09-18-2013, 11:58 AM   #16
PT Rider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
Read up on, and check suspension sag.

It could be more preload cranked in will be all you need, or, a higher rate spring may be required.

Check both front and rear suspension sag measurements. With rider weight on the bike it should sag 25% - 35% of total travel. If your sag measurement is greater than that it could explain what happened.

(for example, a bike with 6" of travel should compress no more than about 2" when sitting level, loaded with rider and gear.)

If you are under sprung for the load you may be bottoming inadvertently, or at least going further into travel than optimal.
About 40 mm for sag, both front and rear, works well for the V-Stroms.

Here is a good front spring rate calculator:
http://www.sonicsprings.com/catalog/...93096051ee69bf
The stock V-Strom front springs are dual rate about .65 & .85 mm/kg.

My Hepco & Becker centerstand on my wee-strom had a few scratches on it, but didn't hit hard enough to upset the bike.
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Old 09-18-2013, 03:54 PM   #17
stoke OP
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Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
They are just so difficult to carry along for the middle-of-nowhere tube change or repair.

This is an ADV thread .... not always the same scenarios as those weekend warriors who rarely venture far from home and easily have their buddy help them trailer back to those Front and Rear stands in the comfy garage.

My wife's Monster 696 annoys me greatly because of the absence of a center stand, or even the ability to fit one. She bought it because it was the only bike she liked that fit her inseam and wasn't a cruiser. Makes chain maintenance on a trip quite a chore. I hope she never has a flat on a trip, we'd have to abandon the bike or call for a tow.
Thank you for mentioning this. I am headed to Death Valley for the Gold Point rally in October and decided it was time to fit a centerstand for

A) On the road chain maintenance since it's quite some distance

and

B) Fixing a flat

I don't currently have a garage, which I hate, and chasing the bike around to clean and lube the chain really sucks in a crowded apartment complex!

My other update is that I'm going to a Lee Parks cornering class probably in late September, I found out there is going to be one not far from me. Figure it's worth the investment, especially since it's local.

What I've discovered and others have mentioned it on this thread, is that it's all fine and dandy when you're leaned over and conditions are nominal, but what if, as in my case that prompted this thread, you're leaned over all the way, suspension compressed, and then you hit a big dip? Or you have to corner even more sharply to avoid a sudden obstacle? If you're at 90% traction and then the variable that just got tossed at you exceeds the 10% remaining, you're in trouble!
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Old 09-18-2013, 03:56 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PT Rider View Post
About 40 mm for sag, both front and rear, works well for the V-Stroms.

Here is a good front spring rate calculator:
http://www.sonicsprings.com/catalog/...93096051ee69bf
The stock V-Strom front springs are dual rate about .65 & .85 mm/kg.

My Hepco & Becker centerstand on my wee-strom had a few scratches on it, but didn't hit hard enough to upset the bike.
This is great info and a great resource for a subject I am scrambling to learn more about, thank you for posting this up! I found the users manual a bit lacking for info on this.
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Old 09-18-2013, 09:40 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
...This is an ADV thread .... not always the same scenarios as those weekend warriors who rarely venture far from home and easily have their buddy help them trailer back to those Front and Rear stands in the comfy garage...
Yeah, this is the "adventure" thread, why are you too lazy to lever the bike off the side stand, pop it in gear and spray the chain???? If you ever get a flat, throw the bike on it's side or lever it off the sidestand with a rock and change the tire. I have rim locks on my bike so I just ride on the flat for a while till I can change it. Who needs a frickin centerstand, they are a waste of space, weight and they are dangerous if you ride fast enough to hit them on the ground. Put some adventure in your ride...
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Old 09-19-2013, 04:27 AM   #20
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You seem to have forgotten the greatest benefit, put a protractor on the bevel and you have your lean angle!
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Old 09-19-2013, 06:16 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homey View Post
Yeah, this is the "adventure" thread, why are you too lazy to lever the bike off the side stand, pop it in gear and spray the chain???? If you ever get a flat, throw the bike on it's side or lever it off the sidestand with a rock and change the tire. I have rim locks on my bike so I just ride on the flat for a while till I can change it. Who needs a frickin centerstand, they are a waste of space, weight and they are dangerous if you ride fast enough to hit them on the ground. Put some adventure in your ride...
All well and good if it is my DRZ. I'll toss it on the ground without a hitch. I'd get my ass kicked throwing the wife's Monster on it's side, or propping it up on a rock.

The Tiger and the KTM 950 both have centerstands and I have never dragged either of them, despite the narrow to non-existent chicken strips on the tires. Higher clearance ADV bikes can carry a centerstand without too much worry. The lower-slung weekend racer-bikes by design cannot have them. Not so much the way it was in the 70's and 80's though. I do remember dragging stands on anything that had one back then.

I am aware of the tilt-it-up-on-the-sidestand trick to lube the chain. On the DRZ this is easy. On the Monster it is nearly impossible for one person to manage this juggling act. I did buy one of those roller gizmos to put the Monster's back wheel on (haven't tried it yet), but I wouldn't want to carry this along on vacation.

As for who needs a frickin' centerstand? I guess that is a personal preference. There are valid arguments on both sides of the issue. Blanket statements as you put them may be your preference, but would hardly encompass everyone's situation. The longer I can go between having to pick up the big ADV bikes off their sides, the better.
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MotoTex screwed with this post 09-19-2013 at 06:34 AM
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Old 09-19-2013, 06:29 AM   #22
Dilligaf0220
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Sounds like you figured out your suspension needed a bit of tuning, and your bike will ride a lot better because of it.

Had the same thing happen to me the first season with a new bike, even laid down a few souveneir marks from the stand dragging.



Once the suspension was dialled in, no probs.
And yeah, having a centerstand really helps when you don't have a proper garage.
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Old 09-19-2013, 10:57 AM   #23
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Damn son. Looks like you dragged an anchor there!
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Old 09-19-2013, 02:31 PM   #24
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No big deal. (well, dragging was a big deal, but not the fix) You added some weight/lost a little ground clearance, so I'm not surprised a little preload had to be added. That weight will carry some momentum, too, so you may need one more click on the dampeners as well to get back to where you were.
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Old 09-19-2013, 04:35 PM   #25
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My 2 cents: While the footpad on the stand doesn't concern me all that much, dragging the 'hard' pivot point and cross-brace point does. Those unyeilding touch-down points will lever a tire off the pavement pretty easy IMO. Thus, you can play with the suspension as others have posted. But I would be tempted to slow down using those scrapes as a hard limit. Granted if you want to drag stuff thru your favorite, well-known curves, be my guest. But I sure would hate to hit an asphalt buckle with the hard parts in an unknown curve.

My bi-pod pads are well scraped down to a nice angle and I can drag my pegs at the track. But I don't do that on the street even in my fav corners. Last week on my commute, a gravel truck spilled enough on my fav corner to give me an "Oh Geebus" moment. Street scenarios often do not have the kind of run-off areas that tracks do. So the crash on the street usually has one sliding over to where it really hurts to come to that sudden stop.

To each, his own.
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Old 09-19-2013, 08:03 PM   #26
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All well and good if it is my DRZ. I'll toss it on the ground without a hitch. I'd get my ass kicked throwing the wife's Monster on it's side, or propping it up on a rock...
My prior response was partly in jest, probably should have added a couple smileys. It's pretty self evident that if you are going to use it and it's not in the way, it's useful. On the other hand, if you are hitting it on the ground in corners its time to loose it before you end up on your head (assuming your suspension is properly set up in the first place).

Back in 70's and 80's the first thing to come off my new bikes was the center stand followed directly by the stock tires.

btw, I currently have a GSXR1000 and have no problem with the tilt-it-up-on-the-sidestand trick though i don't do it with the engine running. Don't want to have to chase it down the road if I screw up. ;) I don't see why it'd be so difficult with the monster? My Husky 610 is a piece of cake.
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Old 09-20-2013, 06:04 AM   #27
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btw, I currently have a GSXR1000 and have no problem with the tilt-it-up-on-the-sidestand trick though i don't do it with the engine running. Don't want to have to chase it down the road if I screw up. ;) I don't see why it'd be so difficult with the monster? My Husky 610 is a piece of cake.
I could have tossed some smilies in too. I figured it was a friendly jab. However I do suffer from a little bout of diarrhea of the keyboard, on occasion.

The issue with the Monster may just be that I've gotten used to having center stands. It feels like a circus act and I'm in fear of my life should I scratch it. I'm working without a net here.

'course it could be that the still-mending broken leg from back in March doesn't allow the flexibility necessary. Those nine screws and the plate holding half my knee together seem to have an effect on standing, squatting, bracing the motorcycle, running from mountain lions, etc.
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Old 09-20-2013, 07:33 AM   #28
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are your nuts pressed up against the tank?
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Old 09-20-2013, 06:30 PM   #29
Homey
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Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
...'course it could be that the still-mending broken leg from back in March doesn't allow the flexibility necessary. Those nine screws and the plate holding half my knee together seem to have an effect on standing, squatting, bracing the motorcycle, running from mountain lions, etc.
Could be, metal has a way of being inflexible. Luckily, all my bones are still intact. Pretty amazing considering 40yrs of riding, 30yrs of racing and an un-told number of crashes...
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Old 09-20-2013, 09:59 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by ibafran View Post
My 2 cents: While the footpad on the stand doesn't concern me all that much, dragging the 'hard' pivot point and cross-brace point does. Those unyeilding touch-down points will lever a tire off the pavement pretty easy IMO. Thus, you can play with the suspension as others have posted. But I would be tempted to slow down using those scrapes as a hard limit. Granted if you want to drag stuff thru your favorite, well-known curves, be my guest. But I sure would hate to hit an asphalt buckle with the hard parts in an unknown curve.

My bi-pod pads are well scraped down to a nice angle and I can drag my pegs at the track. But I don't do that on the street even in my fav corners. Last week on my commute, a gravel truck spilled enough on my fav corner to give me an "Oh Geebus" moment. Street scenarios often do not have the kind of run-off areas that tracks do. So the crash on the street usually has one sliding over to where it really hurts to come to that sudden stop.

To each, his own.
Excellent advice and yeah, public roads are not racetracks or really places to be testing the limits of hard part to asphalt contact. This whole thing was a good reminder for me to learn a LOT more about my suspension and get better at cornering body position/throttle roll on.

The only other time so far that I've had a real "oh shit" moment cornering, folding one peg way back, was almost exactly like you said, except in my case it was sand in the intersection washed there after the rain, not gravel.

I signed up for the Lee Parks Total Control course that is in town at the end of this month. With my level of experience, I figure it's a good investment and chance to unseat bad habits before they become permanent.
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