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Old 12-12-2001, 01:52 PM   #1
Zodiac OP
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K&N airfilter question

Was wondering if the K&N airfilter would improve performance on the 1150? I had put a couple on previous bikes and it "seemed" to run (or just sound better). It's supposed to allow more air to the itake, but I've heard rumors that it actually decreases engine life?
Not to sure I belive that though.

I've already performed a clean cannestorectomy, and installed a 2Brothers cat eliminator Ti exhaust. Performance is fine now, but it never hurts to add a couple more ponies if possible.

Danke

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Old 12-12-2001, 02:24 PM   #2
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G'day Perry

I have been run K& N filter in all my Bee Meer's from K's to R's

So to answer you question in short on R's there is NO performance increase AT ALL. :mad:

As fro dirt ans Shit getting in your air box this will depend on personal maintance, IE how offten you clean the air filter pending on type of roads ETC. I run a Air ram on my RT and I HAVE NEVER seen any thing but clean air box, inside the filtered area but out side the filtered area YES HEEPS of SHIT.
Now as for degrading of life with a K&N filter I ran 140,000 K's on my 1100RT and and ALL of it using this filter with NO side affects or dity motor\airbox, in shape or form.

so in short no performance gain\ and you still get the same clean air without having to buy a air filter every time, BUT you do have to clean it more often and BE careful as to how much filter oil you use.

Rod
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Old 12-12-2001, 02:37 PM   #3
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Not worth the money or the mess. The OEM filter seems pretty good.
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Old 12-12-2001, 03:15 PM   #4
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On the S post a lot of time was spent on discussions regarding the air intake of the oilhead. The general opnion was that the oilhead breaths fairly well and a K&N without a reworked air box and snorkel yielded no improvement in performance.

It was generally accepted that the K&N did not filter out particles as small as the stock paper filter did. Therefore, engine life would be affected to some extent.
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Old 12-12-2001, 04:43 PM   #5
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This was just hot on the IBMWR too.

Performance of the R bike is the same with the stock filter, the K&N, and the stock filter with 1/2 covered in saran. AKA, no improvement...and very likley no loss of performance with a reasonably dirty stock filter.

Now Rod, I've not put a K&N in my bike, but I did use one of them in my Jeep. I didn't notice any extra dirt, but the filter oil seemed to dirty the throttle and idle control surfaces more quickly than with a paper filter.

From what I could tell the gunk was red filter oil mixed with whatever fine dirt was around. It did this when new, and was worse after a cleaning/reoiling (which was a mild PITA, keep a paper one around for the downtime). I was careful when oiling it but there is no measured way to tell when it has enough vs not-enough. Hence I was probably putting on too much, tho not a gross amount.

Now I'll say to this what I said on IBMWR. My R1150RT ran better with clean TBs. My expirence has been that K&N results in more TB crud. Hence I'm avoiding it for the RT and plan to stick with the easy to replace stock paper filter.

As always, YMMV.
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Old 12-13-2001, 11:59 AM   #6
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The K&N's claim to fame is that it flows when dirty. So, about every second or third time you buy an OEM paper filter you have to clean the K&N. Just spray some Simple Green on the outside of the filter and rinse inside to out. Let dry and spray the outside with the K&N oil. How that can be called a PITA, I'll never know. The theory that microscopic particles that get past the K&N will damage the engine is really stupid. If one compares the back streaming of carbon particles on the exhaust side of the engine to the particles of that get past the K&N, then it's obvious that K&N is penty safe. If K&N's damaged engines, the lawyers of the world would be getting rich off of K&N.

If you're anal rententive about your intake system go paper, if you want to save a couple of bucks and don't like disposable things then go K&N. Your safe either way.

Patrick
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Old 12-13-2001, 01:05 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Curmudgeon
The K&N's claim to fame is that it flows when dirty. So, about every second or third time you buy an OEM paper filter you have to clean the K&N. Just spray some Simple Green on the outside of the filter and rinse inside to out. Let dry and spray the outside with the K&N oil. How that can be called a PITA, I'll never know.
I thought K&N's claim to fame was it was less restrictive, and hence gave more power. Not the case on an oilhead. Flows more when dirty? Ok, but again, 100% block 1/2 the stock paper element, dyno run, no power loss. IMHO the stock paper element sounds way oversized and has a pretty long life. Yeah, it's throwaway...for me that's a *feature*.

And I thought the K&N needed cleaning, or at least reoiling, more often than the stock filter needed replacing. I forget the details....but I thought it was something like reoil ever 15k, and clean every 30k?

Cleaning being a PITA? First off it's more work than removing and replacing. I used K&N filter cleaner..I sprayed, let it sit per directions, rinsed, let dry, reoiled.

For me the PITA was the dry time. The directions said not to use compressed air or whatever to dry it, just let it air dry..fair enough.. I forget the time frame, but it was overnight or a day? Being as it was very difficult to be sure when it was 100% dry I always let it sit longer than needed. For me this could have been a PITA had I not kept the paper element the SUV came with. Had I not been able to swap the paper-element back in, I would have been without a vehicle for 12-24 (more?) hours. On a bike this may not be too bad if you can pick a day when you don't want to ride or you keep the stock filter around.

As far as K&N's filtering ability...it's a great debate along with helmets, oil, UJMvsBMWvsHD...all that. I've not seen much data. And any data I've seen has had holes shot in it by the other side. Nothing you post would convince me that it's a good filter, and nothing I post would convince you it's not. Not worth either of our time discussing eh? Agree to disagree?

My only serious point is that oilheads seem to like their throttles balanced to run smoothly. Gunk in the TBs causes them to flow differently. I had enough gunk to keep the fast-idle from working properly. Anyways, it was my expirence that K&N oil seemed to mix with the air a bit and help accelerate the gunking up process in the throttles. A bad thing IMHO. YMMV.
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Old 12-13-2001, 01:29 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by stevenknapp



My only serious point is that oilheads seem to like their throttles balanced to run smoothly. Gunk in the TBs causes them to flow differently. I had enough gunk to keep the fast-idle from working properly. Anyways, it was my expirence that K&N oil seemed to mix with the air a bit and help accelerate the gunking up process in the throttles. A bad thing IMHO. YMMV.
You could have also got that Gunk from BAD fuel and not changing fuel filtter that often.


Rod
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Old 12-13-2001, 01:53 PM   #9
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It would be downright amazing if you can get dirt from bad fuel on a motor where the throttle plates are well upstream of the fuel injectors...actually don't most motors have the throttles well upstream of the fuel injectors? :)

It did seem to get a wee bit of oil from the crankcase vent tube...but wipeing my finger on the dirty throttle plate produced a red colored dirty goo. The motor oil was brown, the K&N oil was red.

FWIW, The RT's TB dirt was brown..I'm guessing from crankcase oil. The airbox had a good teaspoon in it too. Go figure.
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Old 12-14-2001, 01:32 AM   #10
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Haven't tried K&N yet but am thinking of using that and changing the intake tube, with the larger one made by wunderlich out of carbon fiber. It is suppose to be thicker in diameter and let more air in, I assume that you should use it with a K&N filter and a full exhaust system to reap the full benefits. Anyone have this setup? The intake tube is kinda steep at 295 bucks, any richie riches out there try this?:):
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Old 12-14-2001, 08:20 AM   #11
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Well, once again I will relate the GS intake issue to the S I rode for a few years and the info on S post. The Holy Grail on the S post is HP. Some of the S boys and girls around the world have spent incredible amounts of time and money developing goodies and modifications to increase that HP.

Two notable intake modification gurus are SJ BMW and a well respected Aussie named Lennie from down under. As far as I could tell they appeared to have similar results from their extensive testing.

The S oil head did not benefit from more air unless the entire air intake system was modified. This was not just a question of more volume being better. How it flows was important. Air box, filter and snorkel were modified to work together in order to get more usable flow and HP results.

HP gains from intake modifications were modist at best.

I am sure Chris and the others at San Jose BMW would be glad to talk to any GS owners. regarding what aspects of their S development and flow bench testing that might apply to the GS.
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Old 12-14-2001, 02:15 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Conrad Sudduth
Well, once again I will relate the GS intake issue to the S I rode for a few years and the info on S post. The Holy Grail on the S post is HP. Some of the S boys and girls around the world have spent incredible amounts of time and money developing goodies and modifications to increase that HP.

Two notable intake modification gurus are SJ BMW and a well respected Aussie named Lennie from down under. As far as I could tell they appeared to have similar results from their extensive testing.

The S oil head did not benefit from more air unless the entire air intake system was modified. This was not just a question of more volume being better. How it flows was important. Air box, filter and snorkel were modified to work together in order to get more usable flow and HP results.

HP gains from intake modifications were modist at best.

I am sure Chris and the others at San Jose BMW would be glad to talk to any GS owners. regarding what aspects of their S development and flow bench testing that might apply to the GS.
I am testing 1 of Lennies air duck's on RT at the moment


Rod
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Old 12-14-2001, 05:34 PM   #13
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K&N has always been a buck well spent as an aftermarket staple on almost every bike I've owned, results have varied in terms of noticeable performance, largely a function of bike itself and the type and terrain of riding. I've found that alone, there's not too much of a difference, but as a stock replacement it allows better air flow which is noticeable when coupled with an aftermarket pipe and well synched TBs, (the chip also provides a better fuel/air re-map),.... i was tossin' the beast around in the dust and dirt this past summer while in Nova Scotia, IMHO, K&N traps more bullshit that is easily expelled in a few minutes by giving it a high pressure blast from a compressed air nozzle, couple of squirts of oil and you're off. As a preventive measure 2-3 times a year, a dose of TECHRON will keep the intake valves free and clear of carbon crud and particulate. This time o' year try checkin the potential inhabitants of the air box,.. here in the northeast the luxury suite for a pack of small rodents is in there. Those little bastards know where it's warm and they manage to crawl in thru the snorkel..... Why I oughta !!!! ...... noticed this a few years back and after pulling the filter, completely plugged with seed husks and semi- eaten, (the stock paper element), made the switch for the better.

GeeEss11SqdHntr screwed with this post 12-14-2001 at 05:50 PM
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Old 12-14-2001, 08:39 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by GeeEss11SqdHntr
that is easily expelled in a few minutes by giving it a high pressure blast from a compressed air nozzle, couple of squirts of oil and you're off.
The book says blasting a K&N with compressed air was a BIG no-no, at least in their book. :eek:

As always, YMMV.
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Old 12-14-2001, 08:45 PM   #15
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They're pretty clear about that on their website too: http://www.knfilters.com/clningins.htm
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